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Old 09-26-2010, 09:20 PM   #31
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Feedback on the DLS:

DLS will get the rear planted
if you can get the car to rotate,
It will be very fast and tight out of Hairpins
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:35 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShermanSim View Post
Feedback on the DLS:

DLS will get the rear planted
if you can get the car to rotate,
It will be very fast and tight out of Hairpins
But only on the 1:10 scale cars
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:40 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
But only on the 1:10 scale cars
can you tell as why?
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:49 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfilos View Post
can you tell as why?
His statement is also written in my DAX topic and is indeed funny because I have runned with it and by mail and PM on several forums I know more people have tryed it and all reactions are the same: a lot of grip at the rear. The main problem to deal with is to get more steer to get the front/rear balance back again.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfilos View Post
can you tell as why?
Grip ballance is for a great part realized by the with of the tyres. The difference between 1:10 (RR-FR) is about 10%, in 1:8 (RR-FR) about 60%.
So the effect of DSL on the rear of a 1:10 scale car will have a smaller impact than the result on a 1:8 scale car. Due to this big impact on a 1:8 scale car, you will need to change a lot to the front in order to restore ballance between front and rear. Beside this a 1:10 scale car can better cope with this change... there is a diff that is not present in a 1:8 scale car so it will only go straight quite well

See also Roelofs quote: --> The main problem to deal with is to get more steer to get the front/rear balance back again.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:15 AM   #36
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Yes, but it can be done....
- short wheelbase
- almost no caster
- almost no camber
- soft or no front anti rollbar
- a softer front tire (which is getting normal these days)
- smaller side pulley for more overdrive

And as mentioned before there are some things to play with as well making it a better roling and so a faster car:
- lower rear body mounts
- less rear toe-in
- no use of a gurney strip
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:23 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Yes, but it can be done....
- short wheelbase
- almost no caster
- almost no camber
- soft or no front anti rollbar
- a softer front tire (which is getting normal these days)
- smaller side pulley for more overdrive

And as mentioned before there are some things to play with as well making it a better roling and so a faster car:
- lower rear body mounts
- less rear toe-in
- no use of a gurney strip
- wheelbase: Most of us are running extreme short, shorter means a new chassis lol
- Caster... ok
- Camber, we dont want negative camber
- Why should I lower the rear of the body?
- Less rear toe-in, less than 1?

What I read is that you are partly taking rear grip away, the solution should be to generate front in-corner grip. Only then it could be faster.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
What I read is that you are partly taking rear grip away, the solution should be to generate front in-corner grip. Only then it could be faster.
Bingo. So instead of the adjustments you mentioned, try these:

1. Higher rear roll center.

2. Lower front roll center.

3. Higher rear roll resistance (stiffer springs/shocks/bars)

4. Lower front roll resistance (softer springs/shocks/bars)

5. Moving the center of pressure forward (body mounted more forward)

6. Moving the static weight distribution more to the rear.

7. Softer front tires.

8. Less overdrive.

9. Increase brakes (helping the car turn in better when trail braking)

10. Less front droop.

On and on and on...
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
- wheelbase: Most of us are running extreme short, shorter means a new chassis lol
- Caster... ok
- Camber, we dont want negative camber
- Why should I lower the rear of the body?
- Less rear toe-in, less than 1?

What I read is that you are partly taking rear grip away, the solution should be to generate front in-corner grip. Only then it could be faster.
Rear toe-in at 1 degree????? I think you do not have any idea what other people are running so please, stop speaking for others.
Why not lowering the rear end of the body? It is aerodynamic resistance and without gurney you will see an extra 5km/h topspeed
Taking away rear grip is something normal in every way of racing if they can not find more grip on the front, with DLS/DAX you can take away the things which are eating power....
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:40 PM   #40
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Here is a pic of the "ILS":




I ran it on qualifiers but took it out for the main. The track was very inconsistent in terms of grip. Some parts had good grip, other parts had almost none. I couldn't find I good compromise between the ILS and good steering. So I played it safe and went back to my last setting.

I hope that the track will be prepped better on the next race meet.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Here is a pic of the "ILS":




I ran it on qualifiers but took it out for the main. The track was very inconsistent in terms of grip. Some parts had good grip, other parts had almost none. I couldn't find I good compromise between the ILS and good steering. So I played it safe and went back to my last setting.

I hope that the track will be prepped better on the next race meet.
Yes, I noticed that also, the track was not that sticky like sometimes it is. You didn't tell me you had it on during the qualifiers. I want to see it so I can try it. You know the Nene had lots of problems with rear grip this last race we tried lots of things but like you said the track was inconsistant.
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:51 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Rear toe-in at 1 degree????? I think you do not have any idea what other people are running so please, stop speaking for others.
Why not lowering the rear end of the body? It is aerodynamic resistance and without gurney you will see an extra 5km/h topspeed
Taking away rear grip is something normal in every way of racing if they can not find more grip on the front, with DLS/DAX you can take away the things which are eating power....
I know what others are running Roelof and I can speak for others
Lowering the rear end of the body will indeed result in less aerodynamic resistance and therefore a higher topspeed, but ... it will also result in less diffuser (ground) effect resulting in less in-corner stability. Allover, fast laptimes are not set with very high topspeed but with a car thats fast at the in-field. Beside that there is still the problem of bump, how to solve that?

But thats all only applicable to 1:8.

It could work on a 1:10, as it is a totally different platform.
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Old 09-28-2010, 02:16 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Here is a pic of the "ILS":




I ran it on qualifiers but took it out for the main. The track was very inconsistent in terms of grip. Some parts had good grip, other parts had almost none. I couldn't find I good compromise between the ILS and good steering. So I played it safe and went back to my last setting.

I hope that the track will be prepped better on the next race meet.
What brand name ?
fit for NT1
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:57 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by RC MARKET View Post
What brand name ?
fit for NT1
The whole system is bits and parts from other cars...

The pivot balls and arms are from the S120 steering links. They are the smallest pivot ball and links that could fit inside the X of the rear lower arm.

The Gold L Arms are basically an Aluminum Servo Horn in L shape. That I just drilled through where the servo usually sits so I could fit two flanged 5mmx8mmx2.5mm bearings. The bearings are running on a Centax Thrust Bearing holder.

The Graphite plate is just a custom that I made here from a plate lying around. I may make another one that lets the whole assembly sit a little bit lower.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:28 AM   #45
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Last night I was thinking about front DAX/DLS and came to the conclusion that it supersedes caster,am I wrong?And what about the Serpent's 710 DRS working in conjunction with DAX/DLS?

I had some literature about the history of 1/8 scale on-road and i recall seeing a Mantua(or a SG,but sure it was from italy)that used a twin vertical plate chassis,was from the first crop that used independent suspension,the engine was longitudinally mounted and all plastics were semi-transparent white,i talk about this car because in the underbody there were lexan "gondolas",no they weren't intended to sail,they created ground effects as the lotus 80 F1 car!How about that?Downforce without the aero drag,the chassis are slim enough to put the aero pieces.Whadda ya think fellows?
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