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Old 09-23-2010, 04:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
Some people have asked if the DLS system can be adapted to other cars. The answer is NO.

Here's the reason:

One of the most notable features of the 733's design was that it had a wide open rear end. This opening in the 733's chassis design allows for room which the DLS mechanism. Other cars like the NT1 or Mugen or RRR have enclosed composite bulkheads that take up the space which the DLS needs for it to function. Just take another look at the pictures in the first post and you will see.

The only way to adapt the DLS onto other cars would be to redesign the entire rear end chassis to allow room for the DLS mechanism. Definitely this can not be easily modded by hacking at the bulkheads with Dremel.
While having a dynamic camber seems like a great idea... DLS's fault comes from the fact that is basically linking left and right suspension. (My own opinion)

Even though, our cars are already equipped with a Anti-roll bar that does just that, DLS doesn't permit you to make any softer/harder changes between left and right wheel.

I have already finished my own "ILS" - Independent Link System. Which will create a dynamic camber but the only link between left and right wheels is the anti-roll bar.

I will post pictures of the assembly after my final testing on Sunday.


So, to contradict your opinion YR4Dude, the DLS/ILS can be adapted to any car.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:40 PM   #17
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I have already seen it on a MTX4, NT1, V-one and many other cars, you will be amazed how inventive people are not only using the original DLS parts but also making their own parts. If only a dremel is needed to fit the links on another car than you are not worth this hobby if you can not manage that.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
While having a dynamic camber seems like a great idea... DLS's fault comes from the fact that is basically linking left and right suspension. (My own opinion)

Even though, our cars are already equipped with a Anti-roll bar that does just that, DLS doesn't permit you to make any softer/harder changes between left and right wheel.

I have already finished my own "ILS" - Independent Link System. Which will create a dynamic camber but the only link between left and right wheels is the anti-roll bar.

I will post pictures of the assembly after my final testing on Sunday.


So, to contradict your opinion YR4Dude, the DLS/ILS can be adapted to any car.
Not exactly, your "ILS" system uses the anti-roll bar. It is not the same as the DLS system shown. The question people were asking was that if the DLS system can be adapted to other cars, which can not.

Your ILS system may achieve the same results except by different means. I look forward to seeing pictures of your ILS system. I have an old Kyosho V-One that could benefit from it.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
I have already seen it on a MTX4, NT1, V-one and many other cars, you will be amazed how inventive people are not only using the original DLS parts but also making their own parts. If only a dremel is needed to fit the links on another car than you are not worth this hobby if you can not manage that.
I think that's rather unfair to say. I think the main point was that this product, sold as a kit might not work out of the box on other brands. Some people don't want to go cutting up their car to change something which is fine. I don't think it's fair to label them as not being a true hobbiest. That's my opinion.

To stick to the thread topic, I think this will be somewhat preferential in usage. Someone might love it, someone might prefer not to have it. It is a cool idea in some respects.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:48 PM   #20
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I think that's rather unfair to say. I think the main point was that this product, sold as a kit might not work out of the box on other brands. Some people don't want to go cutting up their car to change something which is fine. I don't think it's fair to label them as not being a true hobbiest. That's my opinion.

To stick to the thread topic, I think this will be somewhat preferential in usage. Someone might love it, someone might prefer not to have it. It is a cool idea in some respects.

Look at what Joaquin is saying "now many other car company users are trying it on there cars and loving it."

Meaning that no only the product works. The whole concept does.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:50 PM   #21
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Look at what Joaquin is saying "now many other car company users are trying it on there cars and loving it."

Meaning that no only the product works. The whole concept does.
For them, not everyone is the same with anything. Of course with time you can adjust to the difference and maybe get better results then.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
I have already seen it on a MTX4, NT1, V-one and many other cars, you will be amazed how inventive people are not only using the original DLS parts but also making their own parts. If only a dremel is needed to fit the links on another car than you are not worth this hobby if you can not manage that.
My point was that no amount of Dremeling would facilitate it to fit without serious compromise to the chassis integrity to make the Serpent's system fit other cars. However if you're talking about building something from scratch with custom parts made to fit, that is always possible.

As you noted in your posts about this type of mechanism, this idea has been around. Its just that Serpent is the first in taking this concept into an actual part that would fit their cars.

I did not say that this system in concept would not work on other cars but just that the specific part made by Serpent would not fit other cars.
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
I did not say that this system in concept would not work on other cars but just that the specific part made by Serpent would not fit other cars.
No it wont, not straight out of the box. However, someone looking to make their own for their car might find it useful to get this as many of the parts might work with some modification.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:56 PM   #24
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No it wont, not straight out of the box. However, someone looking to make their own for their car might find it useful to get this as many of the parts might work with some modification.
If the part is somewhat inexpensive, then it would be worth a try. However, it sells for about $120. Its just not smart money to buy the part for just a few pieces and maybe hack it up to fit your application.

Really if it were up to me to build one for my non 733, I'd be better off getting blank graphite sheet and cut it up custom for my application. The rest is just tie rods and ball ends. The only other piece is the swivel arm with the bearing in it. That can be found from some old electric TC that has ball bearing dual crank steering.
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:36 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
My point was that no amount of Dremeling would facilitate it to fit without serious compromise to the chassis integrity to make the Serpent's system fit other cars. However if you're talking about building something from scratch with custom parts made to fit, that is always possible.
.
The price of modifying some plastic bulkheads to make it fit are not the costs, if you realy want to give it a try it is just a small sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
As you noted in your posts about this type of mechanism, this idea has been around. Its just that Serpent is the first in taking this concept into an actual part that would fit their cars.
.
And mayby they have to pay for their stupidity not to find out how the rights are, a reaction of Peter Walker, the original designer:

both versions of the CC&AR system have been used on DAX sports cars - the lower-arm linked version some 10 years ago at the rear of the DAX Rush and the upper arm-linked version on both the DAX Rush and the DAX 427/Tojeiro. Patents are held for both versions.

In principle we have no objection to the system being used on model cars but patenting costs are significant and this would obviously need to be on a formalized under-license basis. Serpent Model Racing Cars please take note!


(maybe thats why it is still difficult to find it at the LHS?)

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I did not say that this system in concept would not work on other cars but just that the specific part made by Serpent would not fit other cars.
True, but if you realy want to give it a try you will find a way to do it.
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:50 AM   #26
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iv modfied my rrr and made up my own parts for the DLS.

also Riketsu, i look forward to seeing it . thank me for the design later lol.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:41 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
......
In principle we have no objection to the system being used on model cars but patenting costs are significant and this would obviously need to be on a formalized under-license basis. Serpent Model Racing Cars please take note!


(maybe thats why it is still difficult to find it at the LHS?)
Given the cost of this part; $120, I think Serpent has the money for the license issue covered.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:04 PM   #28
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iv modfied my rrr and made up my own parts for the DLS.

also Riketsu, i look forward to seeing it . thank me for the design later lol.
I will after the final test on full racing conditions, not on an unprepped track.

Last test I ended up with the rear blade ARB at 90 degrees and still the car has enough traction.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:41 AM   #29
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hm, u'v motivated me to redesign the dls for my rrr again.
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:26 PM   #30
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Going to get one and try it out if it gives that much traction
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