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Old 09-27-2004, 07:04 PM   #46
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Default Re: Trackdesigner

Quote:
Originally posted by Slotmachine
Remember you always want the straight away on the far side so you can have the tight sections nearest the drivers stand.
Ok thanks. Its just a habit of mine to set up a track that way. If I ever built it, Id probably invert it that way the straight is positioned like that
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Old 09-27-2004, 08:37 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by trackdesigner71
and here is one more I just whipped up
Not sure thats a good idea for a 90deg. turn at the end of the straight-away.


my 2 cents
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Old 09-27-2004, 08:43 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by FAST1
Not sure thats a good idea for a 90deg. turn at the end of the straight-away.


my 2 cents
Ok, What I usually do fo rmy electric designs is I put in a sweeper at the end of the straight. I sometimes put a carousel at the end.
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: Trackdesigner

Quote:
Originally posted by Slotmachine
Remember you always want the straight away on the far side so you can have the tight sections nearest the drivers stand.
Here is one with the straight one one side and the pits on the other
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:28 PM   #50
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The last nitro track pit lane don't seem to be right, I think it will be faster driving through the pit that going through the infield.
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:43 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joehwee
The last nitro track pit lane don't seem to be right, I think it will be faster driving through the pit that going through the infield.
This should be better then
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Old 09-29-2004, 05:54 PM   #52
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{{Jumping in}}

It's been a LONG time since I talked track design!


The track design program TD has been talking about is a neat little program and fun to explore ideas with.

It's really limited, though, because of its tile paradigm. Tracks aren't really designed on a tile system.

so - several schools of thought here:

1. Temporary track:

If you're using a parking lot or something and need to put up and take down your track OR you just want to change it on a regular basis. . .there are specific needs that you have to take into account. For instance, you would want to standardize the lengths of your Pipes/boards, etc. - then you could quite literally just use any drawing program or even Excel (make all columns same size as rows. . .makes good grid! )

Better way, though, is to make a scale sized "sandbox" - a large piece of paper and actual sticks that are scale sized.

2. Permanent track:

here's where you really need to think design. this track will need specific elements BUT will need some flexibility. You don't want to run the exact same track FOREVER. . . you'll want to be able to make some small modifications to change the routes.

if you look at the track at Revelation Raceway, you'll notice that merely by changing where a few boards are, he can completely change the feel of the track. (www.revrace.com/THE_TRACK.cfm)

this is a difficult idea to implement and, for a track that is in development, I've been working with the future owners on this type of track design. You have NO idea how many iterations we've gone through and I really don't think we're done.

==========

Elements of track design:

There are several that are considered fairly essential:

Chicane - this is a "jog" in the track. Example on a full-size circuit: http://www.trackdays.co.uk/shared/im...ft-chicane.gif . On a RC track, it is anything that forces a straightline run to shift one way or the other, and usually back again. Think changing lanes on a freeway.

Radius Turn - this is a turn that decreases in radius and then increases as you exit. this is one of the most challenging elements available.

Keyhole Turn - this is a turn that looks like a, well, keyhole. Also a classic element, it is also very challenging. Starting with a sharp slightly more than 90 degree turn Left (right) it enters into a longer 180 degree turn Right (left) and then into an exiting 90 degree turn Left (right).

Straightway - make this a back straightway otherwise the cars move too fast to track well and other racers get in the way, visually!

Sweeper - best placed entering OR exiting the straight. If you place them at both, you end up with a VERY fast and tough to gear straight.

Hairpins - fairly obvious. Use sparingly and don't repeat them. They tend to be boring. Use them to slow speed down but DON'T put at the end of a straight unless you really want to sell parts!

I think that covers most of the elements.

Sketch out your track and then imagine you're driving it. Literally trace your way through the track, imagining the driving line, apexes, lift points, throttle points, etc. As you find a place that is abrupt or not natural, change it, refine until you have a flowing track that is challenging but enjoyable.
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Old 09-29-2004, 06:57 PM   #53
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Boomer: very well said.

You must be an experienced track builder.
Do you do any consulting services?
I like your explanation..
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:07 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
{{Jumping in}}

It's been a LONG time since I talked track design!


The track design program TD has been talking about is a neat little program and fun to explore ideas with.

It's really limited, though, because of its tile paradigm. Tracks aren't really designed on a tile system.

so - several schools of thought here:

1. Temporary track:

If you're using a parking lot or something and need to put up and take down your track OR you just want to change it on a regular basis. . .there are specific needs that you have to take into account. For instance, you would want to standardize the lengths of your Pipes/boards, etc. - then you could quite literally just use any drawing program or even Excel (make all columns same size as rows. . .makes good grid! )

Better way, though, is to make a scale sized "sandbox" - a large piece of paper and actual sticks that are scale sized.

2. Permanent track:

here's where you really need to think design. this track will need specific elements BUT will need some flexibility. You don't want to run the exact same track FOREVER. . . you'll want to be able to make some small modifications to change the routes.

if you look at the track at Revelation Raceway, you'll notice that merely by changing where a few boards are, he can completely change the feel of the track. (www.revrace.com/THE_TRACK.cfm)

this is a difficult idea to implement and, for a track that is in development, I've been working with the future owners on this type of track design. You have NO idea how many iterations we've gone through and I really don't think we're done.

==========

Elements of track design:

There are several that are considered fairly essential:

Chicane - this is a "jog" in the track. Example on a full-size circuit: http://www.trackdays.co.uk/shared/im...ft-chicane.gif . On a RC track, it is anything that forces a straightline run to shift one way or the other, and usually back again. Think changing lanes on a freeway.

Radius Turn - this is a turn that decreases in radius and then increases as you exit. this is one of the most challenging elements available.

Keyhole Turn - this is a turn that looks like a, well, keyhole. Also a classic element, it is also very challenging. Starting with a sharp slightly more than 90 degree turn Left (right) it enters into a longer 180 degree turn Right (left) and then into an exiting 90 degree turn Left (right).

Straightway - make this a back straightway otherwise the cars move too fast to track well and other racers get in the way, visually!

Sweeper - best placed entering OR exiting the straight. If you place them at both, you end up with a VERY fast and tough to gear straight.

Hairpins - fairly obvious. Use sparingly and don't repeat them. They tend to be boring. Use them to slow speed down but DON'T put at the end of a straight unless you really want to sell parts!

I think that covers most of the elements.

Sketch out your track and then imagine you're driving it. Literally trace your way through the track, imagining the driving line, apexes, lift points, throttle points, etc. As you find a place that is abrupt or not natural, change it, refine until you have a flowing track that is challenging but enjoyable.
Boomer is very knowledgeable when it comes to trackmaking. In fact, he is one of my biggest critics! (remember the catgut hand drawn designs I posted over on the 1/10 pan car thread Boomer ) I also realize that the program has its limitations (Im really jonesing for a program that can give me a few more elements to work with so I can make some scale representations of real tracks without all the open space) Thats not to say that I havent come up with some real nice designs using it though! I am the kind of person that grew up watching a lot of full scale racing so I try to emulate those tracks on the RC level (with front and back straights, very technical infields, pits on the start straight, etc.) I will probably want to move away from that for some applications but I still try to stick to my roots wherever I can.
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Old 09-30-2004, 01:51 AM   #55
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The program that I use is Macromedia Freehand. It's strictly a drawing program - you create lines, curves, etc.

I actually dislike being tied to a grid - life isn't in a grid, it's free-form!

In any case, sure - I can come up with some designs if you want. Let me know!

TD has also come a long way from his catgut (not MY term . . . that was someone else. . .)

But there's not really enough demand for any "consulting" to be done.
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Old 10-04-2004, 01:55 AM   #56
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A picture of the new 1/8th track built in Durban South Africa .... mighty impressive methinks .. can't wait to get my car out on it ....!
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Old 10-04-2004, 09:54 AM   #57
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OH MY - that's over 20 turns. . . it looks cool, but I wonder a couple of things:

1. It's hard to learn that many turns and that amount of track. . .I wonder how many novices are going to try it and how long people are going to really want to run it. . . I think it will flow fairly well, but wow. . .

2. It's a LONG way from the drivers' stand to the keyhole turn at the end of the straight. That means it's going to be difficult to actually see distances, etc. with even a 1/8th scale car at that distance.

Those two worries. . .well, it looks like a well designed track. There are a LOT of very interesting elements there.
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Old 10-04-2004, 11:09 AM   #58
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Hi everyone

I run an indoor club in the UK, I've been designing tracks for ages. Try the Generally program (you can download it from http://generally.racesimcentral.com) - build your own track and you can then try driving it.

The acctual layout of the track is quite possibly the one thing that will make people love or hate the venue. You need to consider what classes you want to run there, for example if you are just going to run Electric Touring, the track doesn't need to be huge and very fast, but if you are going to run Gas cars then perhaps use a slightly faster layout. But to keep the options open a variable track is a great idea (if you really wanted to race gas and electric on the same day just adding a slower corner here and there, or shorterning it slightly for the electrics would mean more or less the same track could be used for both).

The only thing i will mention, our local outdoor track recently re-did their whole track, changing it from a "fairly" fixed layout to a totally variable one, decide if you want to be able to TOTALLY change the track, or just a few parts here and there.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

Oli
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Old 03-03-2005, 07:26 PM   #59
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ttt. This hasnt seen any action in a while. I posted this in one forum but it probably would be more apt here
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Old 07-04-2005, 07:49 PM   #60
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ttt
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