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Old 04-13-2011, 01:06 AM   #886
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I am not a fan of tire additive either. I personally don't like it. And I support it being banned. But to me, it just seems unfair to hold drivers to a rule that is not even stated in the official rulebook. True, the rule has been stated before through other sources, but who is to say every driver is even aware of these other sources/rulings?

I think it would be better to allow the additive at this race, then immediately amend the rulebook so that tire additive is not allowed at any future race. That would solve the separation between haves and have-nots.
The problem as I see it is that with IFMAR you are dealing with a worldwide organization and not just a small country so communication is done in several ways. In the past the letter sent out to the blocs has been done before and it worked in the past. I think that is what Bishop is talking about. Now this is just speculation on my part but if you think that this is a loop hole then this would be how this would happen. That is why going forward IFMAR must do better. Really clarify and update and maybe even eliminate rules that aren't working (if there are any) then we can get back to the racing.

I will say this though, policing this in the future will be challaging for sure.

I also just wanted to add that it's the racers responsibility to be up to speed with the rules, and I'm sure they did a Driver's briefing before hand.

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Old 04-13-2011, 01:11 AM   #887
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The problem as I see it is that with IFMAR you are dealing with a worldwide organization and not just a small country so communication is done in several ways. In the past the letter sent out to the blocs has been done before and it worked in the past. I think that is what Bishop is talking about. Now this is just speculation on my part but if you think that this is a loop hole then this would be how this would happen. That is why going forward IFMAR must do better. Really clarify and update and maybe even eliminate rules that aren't working (if there are any) then we can get back to the racing.

I will say this though, policing this in the future will be challaging for sure.

I also just wanted to add that it's the racers responsibility to be up to speed with the rules, and I'm sure they did a Driver's briefing before hand.

Steve
Oh yeah, I did not consider that IFMAR communicated certain rules to the blocs like that before. If the letter system worked before, then yes I agree there should be more awareness among the drivers regarding tire additive prohibitions. I still feel bad for people that did not know about the rule only to be told about it at the event. Lots of money for privateers to spend attending the event.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:18 AM   #888
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Oh yeah, I did not consider that IFMAR communicated certain rules to the blocs like that before. If it worked before, then yeah there should be more awareness among the drivers regarding tire additive prohibitions. I still feel bad for people that did not know about the rule only to be told about it at the event. Lots of money for privateers to spend attending the event.
You would not believe how awesome events like this are, when all is said and done, normally when you think back to the event you are just in awe of how cool it was. I know I still look back fondly at the worlds event that I did years ago. Saidly this situation may effect some participants from these types of feelings so for sure this is bad. The cost of truing band new tires in a supervised area, where I would imagine most "priviteers" would have already cut their tires down is a huge issue for them. I know that if I was there racing in this event, almost for certain I would have already cut most if not all my tires down (at least some)

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Old 04-13-2011, 01:30 AM   #889
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What's wrong with electric guys? Are nitro guys better?

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Old 04-13-2011, 01:39 AM   #890
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You would not believe how awesome events like this are, when all is said and done, normally when you think back to the event you are just in awe of how cool it was. I know I still look back fondly at the worlds event that I did years ago. Saidly this situation may effect some participants from these types of feelings so for sure this is bad. The cost of truing band new tires in a supervised area, where I would imagine most "priviteers" would have already cut their tires down is a huge issue for them. I know that if I was there racing in this event, almost for certain I would have already cut most if not all my tires down (at least some)

Steve
I wanted to attend...but it just wasn't in the cards for me this year. (as a spectator only...I might accidentally kill a turn marshal if a piloted a 1/8th...I almost did when I piloted a 1/5th at Timezone lol)
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:16 AM   #891
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look for the event coverage, look for the link that takes you to the gallery section, there is at least 5 pictures of the engine.

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Old 04-13-2011, 02:33 AM   #892
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Default Current RC Rules, they arent broken if they arent defined.

The issue with rules and RC racing is that it's never been clearly defined as Inclusive or Exclusive. An Inclusive situation means that governing bodies have to define EVERYTHING, even to the extremes of common sensibility, this will bloat rules, create more chance of error and ultimately make it less appealing for newcomers.

It would make it a LOT easier if the rules were made EXCLUSIVE and anything not within the rules is deemed to be NOT permitted. This also makes it very difficult but resolves the current tyre issues.

This was pointed out to me a while ago by a veteran of the sport so I chose not to get uptight as the rules will be bent and the term cheat is damaging and loosely applied to RC where those deemed of such arent really doing so under current interpretation.

Onto more productive, not sure who, where from.. but it's there!

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Old 04-13-2011, 03:10 AM   #893
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I would like to ask, what I think is one of the more important and interesting question, again:

Who has been using tire traction additives at the 2011 1:8th scale WC?

Are there any facts out there that someone ACTUALLY used tire sauce, or is this all speculation?
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:49 AM   #894
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I would like to ask, what I think is one of the more important and interesting question, again:

Who has been using tire traction additives at the 2011 1:8th scale WC?

Are there any facts out there that someone ACTUALLY used tire sauce, or is this all speculation?
this is a good question, never has it been answered as to who is supposed to be using it, what the product is, and how to apply it correctly.

Stefan, you quoted a previous post of mine, i wrote in frustration, and i guess it is hard to disqualify specially not knowing if it is actually being used. i want to see some racing, guys have now been practicing for a week now, and we really should have been into round 3 today of Qualies. instead it has been cut down to 4 rounds, and less if weather becomes bad. i feel for all the guys who , this experience, will be a once in a lifetime to attend and drive at a worlds event. it must be a bitter pill to swallow for these people. so i do hope today will bring un interrupted racing through to the end. and more importantly, that the spirit of racing is repaired, with some great battles and close racing.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:54 AM   #895
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I would like to ask, what I think is one of the more important and interesting question, again:

Who has been using tire traction additives at the 2011 1:8th scale WC?

Are there any facts out there that someone ACTUALLY used tire sauce, or is this all speculation?
My opinion on this story without accuseing enybody personal.

When I read me self through all this souce mess (forums, blogs, other internet pages …) it seems to me like this:

Till now nobudy used souce, but there is a group of people who would like to. This group of people deliberately accuses other drivers to create confusion.

The goal of this people was to start the discussion about the topic and then present the solution … why don,t we make tire souce legal for all …

When you consider, that IFMAR ''forgot'' to put the rule into there ''rule book'' and everybody could know this the scenario could be planed way back in the past.

As I say this is only my impression and the impression of many people that I spoke with around the world that are not on the spot.

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Old 04-13-2011, 03:58 AM   #896
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I would like to ask, what I think is one of the more important and interesting question, again:

Who has been using tire traction additives at the 2011 1:8th scale WC?

Are there any facts out there that someone ACTUALLY used tire sauce, or is this all speculation?
As told on an EFRA meeting it seems that tire manufacturers could do it as well without telling the drivers..... They just give their drivers the tires as fresh as possible because (mostly) they do give the best grip.

But back on your question, there was a huge discussion about a rule that was not listed in the IFMAR rule book so many drivers were in favorite for tire additives.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:03 AM   #897
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I am not there but it seems to me it could all have been handled a little better at least now it has been dealt with.

As the old saying tells us, the cream will rise to the top.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:09 AM   #898
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As told on an EFRA meeting it seems that tire manufacturers could do it as well without telling the drivers..... They just give their drivers the tires as fresh as possible because (mostly) they do give the best grip.

But back on your question, there was a huge discussion about a rule that was not listed in the IFMAR rule book so many drivers were in favorite for tire additives.
Sorry Roelof, but there is no answer to my question in your post.

All you can read about this "saucegate" is if's, could's and maybe's.
No facts, no names, just accusations, hints and rumours.

Therfore, to me this is all political manouvering and not the people who are supposedly using tire additives are to blame for this mess, but rather the ones who started pointing fingers without proofing anything.

As Gerberit said, I think this whole crap was deliberately started.

If you can't beat somebody, discredit him!

Alain Prost was once the master of this :-)

Last edited by stefan; 04-13-2011 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:12 AM   #899
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this is a good question, never has it been answered as to who is supposed to be using it, what the product is, and how to apply it correctly.

Stefan, you quoted a previous post of mine, i wrote in frustration, and i guess it is hard to disqualify specially not knowing if it is actually being used. i want to see some racing, guys have now been practicing for a week now, and we really should have been into round 3 today of Qualies. instead it has been cut down to 4 rounds, and less if weather becomes bad. i feel for all the guys who , this experience, will be a once in a lifetime to attend and drive at a worlds event. it must be a bitter pill to swallow for these people. so i do hope today will bring un interrupted racing through to the end. and more importantly, that the spirit of racing is repaired, with some great battles and close racing.
I certainly hope so as well, but fromwhat we are hearing here, I'm not very optimistic that we've seen the end of this.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:13 AM   #900
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Default Links covering the race

I've gathered all the links I've found covering this race.
Click on the link below.
Hope you find it useful.

JD & Racing Blog
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