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Old 04-13-2011, 12:19 AM   #871
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However, neither the state of Florida, nor the IFMAR rulebook, prohibit tire additive. So why should any driver be punished for "violating" a rule that doesn't even exist in the first place?
Tire additive have not been allowed for a long time during WC, 2 years ago there was a clear statement during the WC at Lostallo. "You will be banned from the WC if you use tire additive". That IFMAR did not cover this in their rulebook is their problem, they should have known better. Its the Worlds gents, the majority of the market does not even know how to use additive
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:21 AM   #872
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I have a question regarding this whole controversy...I have been trying to keep up on the whole situation just like everyone else and one thing keeps sticking out in my mind..

At what point do the big name companies (ie. Mugen, Serpent, Byrons..etc) step in and actually do something about this? Or do they just sit back and try to remain quiet and let IFMAR sort it out? The reason I ask is simple..being as this event is for all intents and purposes THE pinnacle event of R/C, don't the major players chime in to help it go off smoothly? Especially if their name is tied to the event such as the sponsors?

I have very little understanding of the 'blocks' that are spoken of..but I do realize that each manufacturer has drivers and/or teams within those blocks..do they reprimand drivers that are found to be 'playing in the grey area' of the rules? I understand that in this case there is no particular rule in the rulebook banning tire sauce (at least from what I've heard, I havent actually read a rulebook) but I thought I read that there was a very similar issue 2 years ago and they didnt allow it. Wouldnt it be correct to follow the same protocol that was issued at that event from the outset?

Also, given the current ruling..I agree with those that say the privateers are really getting the brunt of it in their pocketbooks. Isn't this a perfect opportunity for a major company to step in and perhaps gain some new customers by helping out? The only thing that I heard of something like that happening was J.C. offering to bring in enough sauce for everyone in attendance. I dunno, after following all of this..it just seems to me like the whole system is somewhat broken.

/shrug...not trying to beat a dead horse and mow it over with a tractor trailer...just trying to get a better understanding is all.
Those manufacturers want to win just as much, if not even more than the drivers do. A WC title means a HUGE boost in sales.

As for why aren't they doing anything, where do you think the protests are coming from? The first one (against the alcohol spraying) came from a racer that is also a distributor and manufacturer and the money for the protest came straight out of his pocket.

Then, the same guy offers to provide sauce for everyone and the Germans and Italians all protest that. No matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:24 AM   #873
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Tire additive have not been allowed for a long time during WC, 2 years ago there was a clear statement during the WC at Lostallo. "You will be banned from the WC if you use tire additive". That IFMAR did not cover this in their rulebook is their problem, they should have known better. Its the Worlds gents, the majority of the market does not even know how to use additive
Yes but if you cannot do reliable testing, how do you enforce it?

There is an old saying, never make a rule you can't enforce easily and reliably. Otherwise, just let them do it.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:30 AM   #874
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Tire additive have not been allowed for a long time during WC, 2 years ago there was a clear statement during the WC at Lostallo. "You will be banned from the WC if you use tire additive". That IFMAR did not cover this in their rulebook is their problem, they should have known better. Its the Worlds gents, the majority of the market does not even know how to use additive
The problem with requiring racers to follow rules that are fragmented throughout different sources is that there is no definite consensus or sense of reliability. If the rules are spread throughout different sources, who is to say which rule is legitimate and which rule is false? Furthermore, it is unreasonable to expect all drivers to be aware of all the rulings at all prior WC events.

Thus, the more reasonable course of action is to list all the rules in one singular and reliable authoritative source...such as the IFMAR rulebook. IMHO, any racing rule that is not specifically listed in the rulebook (or does not have a prior consensus among all drivers) should not be enforced.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:30 AM   #875
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However, neither the state of Florida, nor the IFMAR rulebook, prohibit tire additive. So why should any driver be punished for "violating" a rule that doesn't even exist in the first place?
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lack of a direct rule is simply being used as an excuse/justification
And you just brought home my point, like those using it, your focusing on being part of a problem, and not seeing it's long over and time to just be part of the solution, race and be happy with it as it stands, stop looking for something that is not there.

It's likely IFMAR should have done a little better, but at the end of the day people were looking for the loop hole, they 'needed' it in their own minds for whatever reason, but it's certainly not in the spirit of good racing is it.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:35 AM   #876
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And you just brought home my point, like those using it, your focusing on being part of a problem, and not seeing it's long over and time to just be part of the solution, race and be happy with it as it stands, stop looking for something that is not there.

That's exactly what I am saying as well...stop looking for something (tire additive prohibition) that is not there.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:38 AM   #877
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It's getting good mileage. They all seem to be going on just one stop.
Any pictures of the OS engines too? Any news if this will be available on the market and when?
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:43 AM   #878
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Any pictures of the OS engines too? Any news if this will be available on the market and when?
redrc.net is your friend

look for the event coverage, look for the link that takes you to the gallery section, there is at least 5 pictures of the engine.

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Old 04-13-2011, 12:43 AM   #879
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That's exactly what I am saying as well...stop looking for something (tire additive prohibition) that is not there.
Now your just arguing a non existent premise, it is there, being used at this and the previous worlds, it's also been stated people have been told, and information 'has' be circulated, your argument holds near zero weight on that angle sorry.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:45 AM   #880
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ok i just saw the post for the rulings. pretty sad i must say.
why not disqualify these people if they had been notified in writing about no sauce ? why cut everyones racing short so they can still race ?
Who would you disqualify?

All the information that is available right now says that it is all wild accusations and no proof.

If you read German, you might wanna check this blog for another view of things: www.nitro-west.de

There is a lot of good information from an actual journalist
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:48 AM   #881
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Did a bunch of electric guys invade this event?
Hit the nail on the head,what a classic
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:50 AM   #882
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Now your just arguing a non existent premise, it is there, being used at this and the previous worlds, it's also been stated people have been told, and information 'has' be circulated, your argument holds near zero weight on that angle sorry.
No, the tire additive prohibition rule is not "there". The rule may be somewhere else...like some memo sent out to all the blocs. But the rule is most certainly not in the IFMAR rulebook which should be the final and authoritative source regarding race rules.

So in the end, we should all just race and have fun, instead for looking for things that are not "there"...such as rules that are not in the IFMAR rulebook.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:51 AM   #883
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That's exactly what I am saying as well...stop looking for something (tire additive prohibition) that is not there.
Rob,

I agree with Bishop on this one, as a former competitor of 10 years of competitive 1/8th on road racing, I believe the opening up of the rules on this would be very bad a few years down the road. I fear some people would invest some major time and effort in this sauce area and that would create a even bigger separation of the have's and the have not's. It's best to solve this issue for this race then further nail the rules down tighter for the future.

Like Bishop stated, this has occured in previous years and has been talked about, now IFMAR just needs to create the right language in the rule book and put some "bite" in the penalty section for any violaters of the rule.

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Old 04-13-2011, 12:55 AM   #884
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Hit the nail on the head,what a classic

What's wrong with electric guys? Are nitro guys better?

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Old 04-13-2011, 12:59 AM   #885
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Rob,

I agree with Bishop on this one, as a former competitor of 10 years of competitive 1/8th on road racing, I believe the opening up of the rules on this would be very bad a few years down the road. I fear some people would invest some major time and effort in this sauce area and that would create a even bigger separation of the have's and the have not's. It's best to solve this issue for this race then further nail the rules down tighter for the future.

Like Bishop stated, this has occured in previous years and has been talked about, now IFMAR just needs to create the right language in the rule book and put some "bite" in the penalty section for any violaters of the rule.

Steve
I am not a fan of tire additive either. I personally don't like it. And I support it being banned. But to me, it just seems unfair to hold drivers to a rule that is not even stated in the official rulebook. True, the rule has been stated before through other sources, but who is to say every driver is even aware of these other sources/rulings?

I think it would be better to allow the additive at this race, then immediately amend the rulebook so that tire additive is not allowed at any future race. That would solve the separation between haves and have-nots.
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