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Old 09-22-2005, 11:06 AM   #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afiq
Hi mike!!!

Got a few question;
on heats and final usually u ran how many mm on your ride heights (smooth and flat surface)
i got a problem when i punch out of the corner my car slighty tail.

thanks mike.
On a smooth track I will start out at 5mm in the front and 6mm in the rear.
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Old 09-22-2005, 11:31 AM   #692
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Mike- what do you find the easiest way to eliminate a little side bite (ie. traction roll on high traction tracks such as Toledo).

In the rear- 4.5mm rear blocks, 2mm spacers on the uprights, 3mm showing on the sway bar, red springs in the rear w/ #600 oil on the 2nd from bottom position, 3 degrees of camber and 2 degrees toe in. Would going to the 5.5mm block give me what I'm looking for or should I try something different (shock position, springs, etc...).

On the front- white springs w/ #600 oil on the bottom position, 1 toe out, 1.5 camber, 2mm caster in front w/ short wheelbase, 1mm spacers under the arms w/ the 'C' ackerman.

I don't want to upset the entire car- just a little less sidebite on high traction surfaces.
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Old 09-22-2005, 11:50 AM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelong
Mike- what do you find the easiest way to eliminate a little side bite (ie. traction roll on high traction tracks such as Toledo).

In the rear- 4.5mm rear blocks, 2mm spacers on the uprights, 3mm showing on the sway bar, red springs in the rear w/ #600 oil on the 2nd from bottom position, 3 degrees of camber and 2 degrees toe in. Would going to the 5.5mm block give me what I'm looking for or should I try something different (shock position, springs, etc...).

On the front- white springs w/ #600 oil on the bottom position, 1 toe out, 1.5 camber, 2mm caster in front w/ short wheelbase, 1mm spacers under the arms w/ the 'C' ackerman.

I don't want to upset the entire car- just a little less sidebite on high traction surfaces.
Leave the roll center at 4.5. Take 1mm shim out of the top of the upright. You can stand the rear shocks up one hole and this should help too.
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Old 09-22-2005, 12:16 PM   #694
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Thanks Mike. I figured changing the rear blocks would really mix things up too much and was looking for your input on something a little less drastic as an alternative.

Are you going to the Nat's? It would be nice to see some Team Mugen support there for the week.
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Old 09-22-2005, 12:59 PM   #695
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Default Further explaination please

OK - I was reading Mike's response to Cdelong on how to reduce side-bite and I guess I have more to learn here.

Isnt Mike suggestions (remove upper shims and move rear shocks to a more vertical position) both methods to INCREASE chassis roll which in turn would increase the likelyhood of a traction roll? I am not doubting Mike, I just want to understand the fundamental physics here as I am new to 1:8 scale. Is this different from touring cars adjustments?

Go ahead Mike if you have time! And thanks for your previous answer on my question; duelly noted.

John
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Old 09-22-2005, 07:49 PM   #696
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Using the stock setup my ride is about 8mm GC all around. Think I'll touch that up a bit and get it to be 5mm front 6mm rear. I heard Mr. Swauger's setup works great for my track so I'll give it a try. Otherwise, get use to the stock setup and make a setup of my own.
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:36 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG Racing
OK - I was reading Mike's response to Cdelong on how to reduce side-bite and I guess I have more to learn here.

Isnt Mike suggestions (remove upper shims and move rear shocks to a more vertical position) both methods to INCREASE chassis roll which in turn would increase the likelyhood of a traction roll? I am not doubting Mike, I just want to understand the fundamental physics here as I am new to 1:8 scale. Is this different from touring cars adjustments?

Go ahead Mike if you have time! And thanks for your previous answer on my question; duelly noted.

John
Standing the shocks up will stiffen the suspension a little and not allow the chassis to roll as much. When you stand the shocks up, the force of the spring acts more directly on the A-Arm (vertical axis) reducing roll. When the shocks are layed down, the force is split a little more toward the horizontal axis reducing the action of the spring and allowing the car to roll more.

As far as the removing an upright shim, I believe that will raise the RC slightly and make it closer to the CG- thus also reducing roll. I always need to pull out my XXX-Main book when it comes to Roll Center settings.

Mike or anyone else can correct whatever I may have screwed up here.
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:26 PM   #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelong
As far as the removing an upright shim, I believe that will raise the RC slightly and make it closer to the CG- thus also reducing roll. I always need to pull out my XXX-Main book when it comes to Roll Center settings.

Mike or anyone else can correct whatever I may have screwed up here.
And this is one point of confusion - XXX Chassis Setup Bible specifically states that making the upper arm more horizontal causes RC to LOWER which in turn INCREASES chassis roll.... at least for a touring car anyway. Maybe the shim location is different than what I am imagining.
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:48 PM   #699
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you're right on the roll center- I knew I'd screw it up if I didn't pull the book out and look myself before typing.

That's why I had the disclaimer at the bottom of my post

I don't fully understand every tuning option on the car, but I'll try anything- especially if Mike is making the recommendation.
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Old 09-24-2005, 02:08 AM   #700
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Ok here is a question from a couple of n00bs! we drove the MRX-4 today and although I have plenty of 1/10th experiance my 1/8th is limited to 1 1/2 tanks today!!

The back seeems to be very loose on power and would give oversteer. The setup is per the kit. What would be the best thing to do to stop this?

Less front droop
Less rear droop
Stiffer front roll bar

There was only 1 deg of toe in at the back. Whats normal?

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Old 09-24-2005, 06:21 AM   #701
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Did you drive on the track? For the clutch I had to keep working on adjuster nut and use threadlock to keep it from self-tightening. Even with it showing just a tiny thread it had a lot of power offline. Loosen it till its flush and make a turn out. Make sure you have threadlock on the clutchnut. The ride height stock if I set mine up right I've got, it's 8mm high all around LOL. Need to change that. That's my theory, but maybe other pro racers and people who had this car longer may contribute with more info.
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Old 09-24-2005, 07:35 AM   #702
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Hey Ziggy, make sure that you have the 6.5 roll center blocks in the back with 1 1/2 shims under the ball on the rear upright. With this setup in the back the car should be pretty tight. Take some dual rate out of your car too. This car loves to steer, it has more steering than any other car. And run the front in the long position. Try this and see what it does.
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Old 09-24-2005, 11:55 AM   #703
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I have a two questions I am starting to get a little confused on roll center

Does rasing the lower arms add traction or take away traction

Does adding shims under the upper arm add traction or take away traction

after reading some of the previous posts i am not sure what to do know

thx
Lou
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Old 09-24-2005, 12:36 PM   #704
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Raising the lower roll center will tighten the car up. Adding shims to the rear upright will tighten the car up. Running the 4.5 block in the lower arm and no shims in the rear upright will be the loosest possible condition for your car. Running the 6.5 lower block and 1 1/2 or 2mm shims on the rear upright will be the tightest you can make your car.
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Old 09-24-2005, 05:29 PM   #705
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so when you say tighten the car up is this set up best for high traction tracks or loose parking lot tracks?

thx
Lou
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