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Old 02-09-2010, 09:36 PM   #1
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Default Clutch setup - What am I doing wrong?

I gave an OS engine I'm putting in my RRR and I have done the following:


#1 - Install the shim and flywheel collet onto the crankshaft. Depending on your engine and collet you may have to use a shim so the flywheel doesn't drag on the engine case. Install the flywheel and flywheel nut onto the crankshaft and tighten. Make sure it is very tight otherwise it can come loose and damaging the other clutch components as well as decrease the life of your engine.
#2 - Install the centrifugal shoes (clutch weights) into the flywheel. Make sure they are clean of any flashing or sharp edges, as this will ensure smooth and consistent clutch operation. Install the clutch shoe ring, lining up the holes with the flywheel pins.
#3 - Install the clutch shoe into the clutch shoe ring, lining up the holes with the flywheel pins. The clutch shoe and shoe ring should move freely up and down on the flywheel pins. If they don't, use the proper size drill or very carefully use a hobby knife to remove a small amount of material from the shoe. Usually, some material needs to be removed from the flywheel pinholes in the clutch shoe – it doesn't take much so be careful not to remove too much material!!
#4 - Install the spring cup into the clutch shoe making sure it is seated all the way. Install the clutch spring and the clutch spring adjuster. Tighten it down so that about .5mm of thread is showing. This will be our assembly setting, as we will do the final adjustment later.
#5 - Install the pinion gears onto the clutch bell and tighten them. Do not over tighten them or it will be extremely difficult to get them off later.
The basics of your clutch are assembled now and this is where the set-up comes into play. How you build and set your clutch will be a key to improving your lap times.
#6 - First, we will set the “gap”. The “gap” is the distance between the clutch shoe and the clutch bell when it is at its farthest position from the shoe as possible. Install the clutch bell onto the crankshaft without the inner bearing – this will allow the clutch bell to make contact with the shoe without the bearing stopping it. Now, install the outer bearing, thrust assembly (including thrust retainer) and the 3mm screw. Tighten the screw down and check the clutch bell. There should be plenty of endplay that will give us the room to shim the “gap” properly.

Now my problem: I have no gap! The clutch bell is tight down onto the clutch shoe!

Does this mean I have the wrong collet maybe? Should I have not used a shim between the collet and the flywheel? I'm using the longer 3x15mm screw even. I can't possibly imagine the gap between the flywheel and the crankcase being any less lol!

Any ideas?!

Thanks!
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:53 PM   #2
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Do not use the shim between the engine and flywheel.

There should be minimal gap between your engine bearing and flywheel (as long as they don't touch).

When you remove this shim, and re-install it, if you still do not have enough gap to play with, you will need to either use a different collet or do what I do with most of my engines and sand down a few mill off the existing collet.

See attached document for clutch setup....
Attached Files
File Type: pdf clutch setup.pdf (394.4 KB, 448 views)
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92GTA View Post
I gave an OS engine I'm putting in my RRR and I have done the following:


#1 - Install the shim and flywheel collet onto the crankshaft. Depending on your engine and collet you may have to use a shim so the flywheel doesn't drag on the engine case. Install the flywheel and flywheel nut onto the crankshaft and tighten. Make sure it is very tight otherwise it can come loose and damaging the other clutch components as well as decrease the life of your engine.
#2 - Install the centrifugal shoes (clutch weights) into the flywheel. Make sure they are clean of any flashing or sharp edges, as this will ensure smooth and consistent clutch operation. Install the clutch shoe ring, lining up the holes with the flywheel pins.
#3 - Install the clutch shoe into the clutch shoe ring, lining up the holes with the flywheel pins. The clutch shoe and shoe ring should move freely up and down on the flywheel pins. If they don't, use the proper size drill or very carefully use a hobby knife to remove a small amount of material from the shoe. Usually, some material needs to be removed from the flywheel pinholes in the clutch shoe – it doesn't take much so be careful not to remove too much material!!
#4 - Install the spring cup into the clutch shoe making sure it is seated all the way. Install the clutch spring and the clutch spring adjuster. Tighten it down so that about .5mm of thread is showing. This will be our assembly setting, as we will do the final adjustment later.
#5 - Install the pinion gears onto the clutch bell and tighten them. Do not over tighten them or it will be extremely difficult to get them off later.
The basics of your clutch are assembled now and this is where the set-up comes into play. How you build and set your clutch will be a key to improving your lap times.
#6 - First, we will set the “gap”. The “gap” is the distance between the clutch shoe and the clutch bell when it is at its farthest position from the shoe as possible. Install the clutch bell onto the crankshaft without the inner bearing – this will allow the clutch bell to make contact with the shoe without the bearing stopping it. Now, install the outer bearing, thrust assembly (including thrust retainer) and the 3mm screw. Tighten the screw down and check the clutch bell. There should be plenty of endplay that will give us the room to shim the “gap” properly.

Now my problem: I have no gap! The clutch bell is tight down onto the clutch shoe!

Does this mean I have the wrong collet maybe? Should I have not used a shim between the collet and the flywheel? I'm using the longer 3x15mm screw even. I can't possibly imagine the gap between the flywheel and the crankcase being any less lol!

Any ideas?!

Thanks!
Perhaps this is new flywheel, and the flywheel is not deeply seated ( or inserted ) into crankshaft. That's why you encounter no clutch gap at the tip of crankshaft.

Try drop some oil in flywheel's inner hole, collet, and locknut before tightening the locknut. The oil helps to lubricate the flywheel when it is being inserted into crankshaft.

2nd solution, you add small 1mm thick shims at the very tip of crankshaft ( you make the tip longer ).

3rd solution, use shorter colllet, I think this is your problem. What engine do you use ?
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:05 PM   #4
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3rd solution, use shorter colllet, I think this is your problem. What engine do you use ?
If he is not using a washer, it could very well be a collet length problem. I've had this problem with the RRR before. I ended up having to shorten the collect myself.

How much does the collect stick out of the back of the flywheel?
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:08 PM   #5
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I can't see the collet sticking out the back at all, the flywheel is as far back as it can b right up against crankcase seal I think. I can still remove the 1 shim from between the collet and the crankcase and see if it still does not touch but I don't think that will be enough.

EDIT: I removed the shim that was behind the collet and redid everything and still haven no play. I guess I'll grind down the collet a bit. Should I grind it from the bigger side?

I put the collet in the flywheel off the engine to see how far it sticks out the back, it less than 1/10th of a mm, it sticks out the same thickness as the smallest shim lol. Not much to grind off lol.

Any ideas?
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Last edited by 92GTA; 02-09-2010 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:28 PM   #6
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Since no one mentioned this, you should check manual to make sure the collect you are usins is for the type of engine you have. Does your engine have a threaded shaft or is it smooth like an sg enging. some kits come with two collects to accomodate the different types.

Check to see that you have the right one. My very first kit had this and it gave me fits till I re-read manual and saw I had the wrong collect on.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 92GTA View Post
I can't see the collet sticking out the back at all, the flywheel is as far back as it can b right up against crankcase seal I think. I can still remove the 1 shim from between the collet and the crankcase and see if it still does not touch but I don't think that will be enough.

EDIT: I removed the shim that was behind the collet and redid everything and still haven no play. I guess I'll grind down the collet a bit. Should I grind it from the bigger side?

I put the collet in the flywheel off the engine to see how far it sticks out the back, it less than 1/10th of a mm, it sticks out the same thickness as the smallest shim lol. Not much to grind off lol.

Any ideas?
Don't grind any material off the collect. You're probably at the minimum.

I have done asw7576's 2nd solution, add shims to the end of the crankshaft, but that was not the most ideal solution. You might want to try it just to see how many millimeters you need to lift the clutch bell off of the clutch shoe.

Edit: millimeters/fraction of a millimeter you need...
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:36 PM   #8
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This might be an overlooked problem but did u install the Clutch weights the correct way? A friend of mines recently had the same problem as urself installing a 18tz in his 733. All this time he had the tapered side to the flywheel facing away.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:58 AM   #9
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Can you take some photos ?

I want to see how did you assemble the clutch

My collet ( if I remeber corectly ) is 5mm - 6mm long. ( mugen seiki collet ).
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:01 AM   #10
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+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


works everytime i use this tip, and works well.....

Enjoy
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:13 AM   #11
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Watching the video cleared things up for me! I was still putting the outer bearing on the bell under the thrust bearing and only leaving out the inside bearing and shims. Looks like I leave out BOTH bearing and only use the thrust bearing.

When I go home tonight I'll do it like the video and I should have no problem.

EDIT: I also just noticed that he puts BOTH bearings under the bell with only the thrust bearing at the end. I was putting the big bearing at the end under the thrust bearing and leaving out the small bearing which I thought was the only one that went under the bell. Wow, I totally needed to watch that lol.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92GTA View Post
EDIT: I also just noticed that he puts BOTH bearings under the bell with only the thrust bearing at the end. I was putting the big bearing at the end under the thrust bearing and leaving out the small bearing which I thought was the only one that went under the bell. Wow, I totally needed to watch that lol.
That's a different car - not a RRR.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576 View Post
Can you take some photos ?

I want to see how did you assemble the clutch

My collet ( if I remeber corectly ) is 5mm - 6mm long. ( mugen seiki collet ).
Here are all the instructions for the RRR series... Take a look at the Evo2 instructions at the bottom - pages 44 & 45.

http://www.kyosho.com/eng/support/in...one_index.html
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:46 AM   #14
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Yeah I followed my manual and it told me to put the small bearing inside the bell, the large bearing on the end of the bell with the thrust bearing on it under the screw at the end. That's where I got confused. So I guess just because it's the same clutch type means they don't all go together the same way? So by following the RRR instructions I still have the same problem I did lol.
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:13 AM   #15
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Nice tip...
Ill use that in near future....
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