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Old 01-21-2012, 07:07 PM   #1336
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Default Everyone is right.

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Originally Posted by DS Motorsport View Post
The white eccentric roll centre inserts are made out of a Teflon based material.
This makes them smoother compared to the standard black pieces.

Can you tell me what you disliked about the manual, either here or by pm?. The manuals are improving every time, that's also why they decided to go with a digital version, so we would like to know what parts need improving?.

I will ask about the screws, and if it's possible to change it in the future.
Personally I like them to all be in one bag since I never follow a manual when building a car.
I didnt feel that Brett was being derogatory he was voicing his experience and it's justified

It too crossed my mind why all the screws were lumped into one bag, and having owned and run TM G4+ build where every detail regarding the build was covered in a beautifully presented manual, over 25 bags of components and screw box thrown in too, the build process was the best I've ever experienced and ever will.

As Brett also stated the parts and car is OUTSTANDING! It's a race car for racers, where as the G4+ LE was a racing MODEL for modelers. The costs of producing printed manuals and bags with every detail would increase the LAB products up to the $1000 mark, just like the TM G4+ 08. TM G4+ LE even supplied special antioxidant bags for steel parts to prevent rust and once built, the car was an abomination on track and performance was horrendous, yet I still claim it was the best build experience of any model.

So something has to give in terms of the budget and I for one would rather an awesome car fully hopped up, than a BASE model car with lots of bagged parts, printed 100 page manual where the $$ arent spent on the one off build and focussed on providing car quality.

Overall sales of a hobby car are greater than a race car, hence why some companies will put more effort into the manuals and bags than the car itself. Team Magic also lowered the quality of their manuals

Brett, it works two ways, either budget on the overheads and supply compenents, or tickle the fancy of modellers and make the money on hop ups.
Capricorn RC cars are for racers and it's not a car for a street basher who wants to be wooed by the experience of the model's build.

The LAB C02 manual was more than acceptable, using a PDF was a great idea and build order was logical and well defined.

I've never had a model that didnt need a little extra work to get it built. Brett, one day try building a yacht or a aeroplane, now that is daunting to have to build as you get one A3 page and a lot of head scratching and swearing, looking forward to hearing you tell us how the car's performance makes the build experience insignificant!!


Cheers

h
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:46 PM   #1337
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Chickentrader I take back what I said about the manual it is good I guess when you try and build a car at midnight after a long day things seem confusing. But I do have a legitimate gripe and that is missing parts.I'm missing front and rear o rings for the diff,3x12 set screws. And also front diff oil.I as you mentioned before also lay everything out for the build.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:09 PM   #1338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettoakland View Post
Chickentrader I take back what I said about the manual it is good I guess when you try and build a car at midnight after a long day things seem confusing. But I do have a legitimate gripe and that is missing parts.I'm missing front and rear o rings for the diff,3x12 set screws. And also front diff oil.I as you mentioned before also lay everything out for the build.
brett, you got those small O-Rings right? Well you are supposed to STRETCH them over the diff

I too thought we had the wrong rings, then called our supplier and he explained that the larger o-rings would expand after one install and you'd never get them back on.

While you think it's impossible to get those small o-rings onto the diff, they do stretch and fit.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:32 PM   #1339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettoakland View Post
Chickentrader I take back what I said about the manual it is good I guess when you try and build a car at midnight after a long day things seem confusing. But I do have a legitimate gripe and that is missing parts.I'm missing front and rear o rings for the diff,3x12 set screws. And also front diff oil.I as you mentioned before also lay everything out for the build.
I just think it's funny with a little online bash like that, and you obviously seem organised with the build. Sorry to hear that you have missing parts and I agree; it's frustrating when you have to go back to the supplier for things that are missing like what you just said now, or if they don't fit.

Are the missing grub screws for the arms? In that case I think it's better to use long screws with CA glue, and cut them to length after. I've seen those screws coming loose in all brands of cars that use this system, including our first Capricorn. By the way; the Capricorn diff O-ring seals for the housing (not the outdrive O-rings) are the best I've seen. They are only half the size of the housing and don't fall off accidentally, or when you open it up again.

Not for you; but perhaps someone could use the tips in the copied article below, by Associated's Andrew Abbott from Racing Lines magazine.




Kindest regards,
Lars.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:38 AM   #1340
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Thanks for all the info DS Motorsport very helpful , 2 last thing's

Are the eccentric roll centre inserts are made out of a Teflon are weaker??

and what is 2nd Speed centrifugal shoes-WHITE different for black and red???

Thanks
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:23 AM   #1341
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Default a big thank you for the supprt and some more help

Hey guys, yesterday i managed to taste 1st place in the Championship Round 3, Victory tastes so good. It was a 15 min battle between me and the 2nd place driver.

I would like to thank all of you especially DS Motorsport, Chicken Trader and DJ Appolaro for the great support you give.

But i still have some issue:

Tried the shock pistons 6 hole with 1000 diff oil and yes it felt a bit better in the bumby section.

Since i was not that happy with the off power entry steering i installed red springs in the rear, a harder rear sway bar, raised the rear rollcenter from -0.5 to 0 and car felt a bit better but still way off during the last 5 min especially!

Basically our races are 15min and during those 15 min we almost consume the tyres to the plastic since our track is very abbresive. With the CA
P i had to run 42 shore at the rear and 37 upfront as it was eating much more tyres than my Kyosho ( rear 40 fronts 35 ) which i beleive its because of the harder shock setup.

My main issue was that the more tyre wear ( lower ride height ) the less off power steering the car has especially during the last five minutes. So in a nutshell during the race i could easily get some time over the 2nd but on the 10/11min he started coming very close, so close that i started defending heavily. The last 4 min fealt like an hour on my tip toes . An i manged to hold him off but was afraid as the car did lose to much of its capabilties during its last five minutes.

Tyres have around 3/4mm on the rears and around 2mm on the fronts

Your help would be greatly appreciated

One last question why did the car have more steering when new, is it becasue it gets loosened up hence more grip?
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:31 AM   #1342
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I big part f the tire wear is with your changing the rear roll center and putting a harder rear sway bar. You are getting more wheel spin on the tires. The reason you lost steering toward the end of the race is the tire split changes and you also lost the rake in the when your rear tires went small. maybe start with a bigger split in the rake to help with the end of the race. Maybe keep the rear roll center the way you had it and take out toe instead, or change the shims under the camber link to make a smaller adjustment. How hot was it. This may have also mattered.

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Old 01-23-2012, 07:02 AM   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj apolaro View Post
I big part f the tire wear is with your changing the rear roll center and putting a harder rear sway bar. You are getting more wheel spin on the tires. The reason you lost steering toward the end of the race is the tire split changes and you also lost the rake in the when your rear tires went small. maybe start with a bigger split in the rake to help with the end of the race. Maybe keep the rear roll center the way you had it and take out toe instead, or change the shims under the camber link to make a smaller adjustment. How hot was it. This may have also mattered.

DJ Apolaro
Hey DJ,

are you a DJ by the way as i have been wanted to ask you?

The split between the front and rear is very good as they kept the 2mm split between the front and rear.

Shall i try white springs up front with the red in the rear or would i be pushing the shock way to different?

I was running Contact rear carbons and front normal plastic but i beleived that since carbon is more rigid i migh actually get more steering?

Temperature was between 12/14 degrees

Will also try reducing the rear toe but normally i loose the rear to much on the sweeper and not get enough off power.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorge858 View Post
Thanks for all the info DS Motorsport very helpful , 2 last thing's

Are the eccentric roll centre inserts are made out of a Teflon are weaker??

and what is 2nd Speed centrifugal shoes-WHITE different for black and red???

Thanks
I don't think they are weaker. I don't have them on the car long enough to judge durability though, they have been in the car for 3 races now and are still as new.

The white 2 speed shoes are also a different material, gives a slightly smoother shift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speed6 View Post
Hey guys, yesterday i managed to taste 1st place in the Championship Round 3, Victory tastes so good. It was a 15 min battle between me and the 2nd place driver.

I would like to thank all of you especially DS Motorsport, Chicken Trader and DJ Appolaro for the great support you give.

But i still have some issue:

Tried the shock pistons 6 hole with 1000 diff oil and yes it felt a bit better in the bumby section.

Since i was not that happy with the off power entry steering i installed red springs in the rear, a harder rear sway bar, raised the rear rollcenter from -0.5 to 0 and car felt a bit better but still way off during the last 5 min especially!

Basically our races are 15min and during those 15 min we almost consume the tyres to the plastic since our track is very abbresive. With the CA
P i had to run 42 shore at the rear and 37 upfront as it was eating much more tyres than my Kyosho ( rear 40 fronts 35 ) which i beleive its because of the harder shock setup.

My main issue was that the more tyre wear ( lower ride height ) the less off power steering the car has especially during the last five minutes. So in a nutshell during the race i could easily get some time over the 2nd but on the 10/11min he started coming very close, so close that i started defending heavily. The last 4 min fealt like an hour on my tip toes . An i manged to hold him off but was afraid as the car did lose to much of its capabilties during its last five minutes.

Tyres have around 3/4mm on the rears and around 2mm on the fronts

Your help would be greatly appreciated

One last question why did the car have more steering when new, is it becasue it gets loosened up hence more grip?
It's great to hear that you're having success.

Regarding the handling issue, as DJ mentioned this is caused by the changing tire split. Once the rears start to get smaller then the fronts, the fronts basically start pulling the car out of the corners which caused the rear to loose grip and causes oversteer.

I always start my races with a 3mm split in front/rear diameter. As you might know a 2mm split gives an equal amount of overdrive and thus the most neutral handling. However I think if you start with a 2mm split your car will only get worse during the final and gives a pretty bad car at the end of it.
When I start with a 3mm split the car will get better as the race progresses and when the tires are around 59/61 during the halfway mark (30min race) the car also reaches the 2mm split giving the car it's maximum performance. After that the car will be slowly decrease in performance.
But overall your window of the car having a neutral handling is much larger and thus gives you a better result in the race.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:32 AM   #1345
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Ok so let's say i managed to keep the 2mm split till the end which I beleive they have, will check them tonight with the caliper, what do you suggest to increase off power steering?
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:37 AM   #1346
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-More rear droop, so a lower rear downstop value. Gives more weight transfer towards the front end during braking and thus increases steering.
-Add front camber, this is something I use to dial in the steering if the rest of the car is behaving as I want it to.
-Softer front anti roll bar.
-More toe out at the front
-More front offset, more shims on the outside.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:47 AM   #1347
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Ok so let's say i managed to keep the 2mm split till the end which I beleive they have, will check them tonight with the caliper, what do you suggest to increase off power steering?
Nope, not a DJ at all. Never have been. Just a name I have been called since I was born. Short for "Dominick John" which is my birth name.

The steering off power is kind a tricky. There a different part of the turn off power and it depends on what part. Is it the immediate turn in, at the 2nd or 3rd part of the turn in the middle. I can say if you make the car stable again this will help your tire wear and then you can shorten the rear camber link. This will help more than racers think. With a shorter link the car will have a lot more turn in, better response left to right and rotate more.

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Old 01-23-2012, 07:52 AM   #1348
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Also if you did keep you 2 split than this means you started with too little of hide height all around. Or you would not have hit toward the end of the race.

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Old 01-23-2012, 08:05 AM   #1349
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Nope, not a DJ at all. Never have been. Just a name I have been called since I was born. Short for "Dominick John" which is my birth name.

The steering off power is kind a tricky. There a different part of the turn off power and it depends on what part. Is it the immediate turn in, at the 2nd or 3rd part of the turn in the middle. I can say if you make the car stable again this will help your tire wear and then you can shorten the rear camber link. This will help more than racers think. With a shorter link the car will have a lot more turn in, better response left to right and rotate more.

DJ Apolaro
So you suggest moving in the inner hole on the wheel hubs knuckle and from the inside link to move to the outer side?
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:08 AM   #1350
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Also if you did keep you 2 split than this means you started with too little of hide height all around. Or you would not have hit toward the end of the race.

DJ
I beleive this was an issue as well since tyres where really low. Will check it out.

I am running sway bar flat blades upfront, now will try the new system with .9
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