52LikesEuropean 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class
10-27-2009, 04:48 AM
#1
European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class
Does anybody know anything about this class and the rules? I understand there is quite a bit of interest in this class in France, Italy, and Germany.
What Cars are avaliable? This is a 2WD Pan Car class with Spec engines is all I know about this class.
I would love to see a simple 1/8 spec class with spec engines developed in the US. We seem to shoot ourselves in the foot every time we try to start
a spec class in this country. It usaually starts out as a low cost spec class
with inexpensive engines then morphs into a high cost highly competive (including pro driver participation) monster after a few years (200mm 10th Sedan class comes to mind!).
The Europeans may have something here. Maybe some of our European friends will jump here and post some info about this class. Maybe even post a few pics?!!!!
Dale
What Cars are avaliable? This is a 2WD Pan Car class with Spec engines is all I know about this class.
I would love to see a simple 1/8 spec class with spec engines developed in the US. We seem to shoot ourselves in the foot every time we try to start
a spec class in this country. It usaually starts out as a low cost spec class
with inexpensive engines then morphs into a high cost highly competive (including pro driver participation) monster after a few years (200mm 10th Sedan class comes to mind!).
The Europeans may have something here. Maybe some of our European friends will jump here and post some info about this class. Maybe even post a few pics?!!!!
Dale
10-27-2009, 06:11 AM
#2
Last weekend I was at the EFRA GP in Monaco and there were about 20 drivers running this class, it is indeed very populair in France.
There are several brands but also big names like Serpent and Motonica, search on www.redrc.net and you will find some product news about it.
The cars are simple like a solid front and rear end, the front is mounted as a 1/12th pancar T-bar, a normal clutch and no 2 or 3-speed gearbox.
Several reasons were given for driving this class and most of the people say it is simple, strong and cheap.
There are several brands but also big names like Serpent and Motonica, search on www.redrc.net and you will find some product news about it.
The cars are simple like a solid front and rear end, the front is mounted as a 1/12th pancar T-bar, a normal clutch and no 2 or 3-speed gearbox.
Several reasons were given for driving this class and most of the people say it is simple, strong and cheap.
10-27-2009, 07:33 AM
#3
Last weekend I was at the EFRA GP in Monaco and there were about 20 drivers running this class, it is indeed very populair in France.
There are several brands but also big names like Serpent and Motonica, search on www.redrc.net and you will find some product news about it.
The cars are simple like a solid front and rear end, the front is mounted as a 1/12th pancar T-bar, a normal clutch and no 2 or 3-speed gearbox.
Several reasons were given for driving this class and most of the people say it is simple, strong and cheap.
There are several brands but also big names like Serpent and Motonica, search on www.redrc.net and you will find some product news about it.
The cars are simple like a solid front and rear end, the front is mounted as a 1/12th pancar T-bar, a normal clutch and no 2 or 3-speed gearbox.
Several reasons were given for driving this class and most of the people say it is simple, strong and cheap.
Yes I did read about this class on REDRC. I am old enough to have run the old Associated and Delta pan cars of the 70's & early 80's. We ran an 1/8
scale pan class here in the Texas SWS series up until about 1992 when we droped the class and ran 2wd Suspension cars such as the BMT,Serpent and Delta P2 cars. Sadly, that class was droped along with 235mm 10th scale in favor of the present 200mm sedan class.
I found the French DXF and Motonica P8C Classic cars on REDRC.
10-27-2009, 07:48 AM
#4
Roelof,
Yes I did read about this class on REDRC. I am old enough to have run the old Associated and Delta pan cars of the 70's & early 80's. We ran an 1/8
scale pan class here in the Texas SWS series up until about 1992 when we droped the class and ran 2wd Suspension cars such as the BMT,Serpent and Delta P2 cars. Sadly, that class was droped along with 235mm 10th scale in favor of the present 200mm sedan class.
I found the French DXF and Motonica P8C Classic cars on REDRC.
Yes I did read about this class on REDRC. I am old enough to have run the old Associated and Delta pan cars of the 70's & early 80's. We ran an 1/8
scale pan class here in the Texas SWS series up until about 1992 when we droped the class and ran 2wd Suspension cars such as the BMT,Serpent and Delta P2 cars. Sadly, that class was droped along with 235mm 10th scale in favor of the present 200mm sedan class.
I found the French DXF and Motonica P8C Classic cars on REDRC.
10-27-2009, 09:07 AM
#5
10-27-2009, 01:02 PM
#6
I agree that this class of car is badly needed in the U.S. , something needs to be done about the state of 1/8 scale racing .The cars have gotten so technical and so fast that only a handful of drivers can extract the performance out of them. They truely have become the Formula One of R/C car racing , but real Formula One has lesser series with slower cars ( GP2 , Formula 3 , Formula Ford etc.) and that's what is needed for 1/8 onroad , a simpler , slower and cheaper class. I have mentioned this to some people and one of the popular rebuttles I have gotten was; its' though to sell something that is slower. Well look at the Traxxas Slash they seem to be selling O.K. !! and they're a hell of a lot slower than my son's Kyosho RB5.
10-27-2009, 01:08 PM
#7
I would love to run this class. I know Garen has brought the Motonica into the states for those that wanted one.
10-27-2009, 01:31 PM
#8
I also think it is a great idea however some basic issues to overcome...
1-
I inquired about buying cars from motonica and wrc to test. I help run a program at controlfreakz raceway and was looking into other intro classes as I think the GT car are not the way to go. They dont handle that great and are overly complicated for their performance...big turnoff to recreational racer/newbie. Pullstart engine are frustrating and pretty pointless. 200mm class is just as expensive and complex as 1/8 and cars are not nearly as durable as 1/8.
The 2wd are about the same price as full out 4wd 1/8 car. This is going to make it a difficult sell as a new class.
2-
They dont share many common parts with most other 4wd versions. Again track or hobby shop or distributer will need to carry a second line of parts just for this car.
3-
Basically only going to be used for racing at your local club/track as other tracks are not looking to adopt this formula.
For the 2wd to work multiple tracks in an area would need to adopt this as intro class,start a series, and supplier would have to offer chassis kit at attractive price for new racers along with spec engine. Spec engine is the easy part as Novarossi has a nice 3port engine that is super cheap and will last a long time in this type of chassis.
I was trying to put out feelers to start a "sportmans class" using standard 4wd 1/8 car with a inexpensive engine. Used car are widely available and would also be attractive for newbie or experienced racers that dont have the budget to run open 1/8 due to cost of engine tires etc.
The traxxas slash concept worked for offroad as it is cheap, durable, handles pretty good all things considered. Just wish their was a similar solution for onroad.
I am open to suggestions on how to make a intro 1/8 class work...please help...every year gets harder to get new people into onroad due to the cost and speed of the vehicles. Future of tracks and hobby depends on getting new faces!
Cheers
Jamie
1-
I inquired about buying cars from motonica and wrc to test. I help run a program at controlfreakz raceway and was looking into other intro classes as I think the GT car are not the way to go. They dont handle that great and are overly complicated for their performance...big turnoff to recreational racer/newbie. Pullstart engine are frustrating and pretty pointless. 200mm class is just as expensive and complex as 1/8 and cars are not nearly as durable as 1/8.
The 2wd are about the same price as full out 4wd 1/8 car. This is going to make it a difficult sell as a new class.
2-
They dont share many common parts with most other 4wd versions. Again track or hobby shop or distributer will need to carry a second line of parts just for this car.
3-
Basically only going to be used for racing at your local club/track as other tracks are not looking to adopt this formula.
For the 2wd to work multiple tracks in an area would need to adopt this as intro class,start a series, and supplier would have to offer chassis kit at attractive price for new racers along with spec engine. Spec engine is the easy part as Novarossi has a nice 3port engine that is super cheap and will last a long time in this type of chassis.
I was trying to put out feelers to start a "sportmans class" using standard 4wd 1/8 car with a inexpensive engine. Used car are widely available and would also be attractive for newbie or experienced racers that dont have the budget to run open 1/8 due to cost of engine tires etc.
The traxxas slash concept worked for offroad as it is cheap, durable, handles pretty good all things considered. Just wish their was a similar solution for onroad.
I am open to suggestions on how to make a intro 1/8 class work...please help...every year gets harder to get new people into onroad due to the cost and speed of the vehicles. Future of tracks and hobby depends on getting new faces!
Cheers
Jamie
10-27-2009, 01:38 PM
#11
Dale
10-27-2009, 01:55 PM
#12
Senna555,
I agree the initial cost of the cars will not be much different than the present crop of 4wd kits, However, the cost of maintaining these cars should be much cheaper. The cars are super strong. They should be able to take a pretty hard hit. They require in Europe a Spec 21. RB and Novarossi both sell an engine for a street price of around $250.00. All drive train componets, engines, clutches, gears, etc. will last longer due to less stress on the drive
trains. You wont have to grind away your tires trying to maintain tire ratios.
You wont have to spend $500.00 to $800.00 for a competive engine. My two
Murnan Flash 21's cost me $800.00 a piece. Great engines but lets get real!!
Dale
I agree the initial cost of the cars will not be much different than the present crop of 4wd kits, However, the cost of maintaining these cars should be much cheaper. The cars are super strong. They should be able to take a pretty hard hit. They require in Europe a Spec 21. RB and Novarossi both sell an engine for a street price of around $250.00. All drive train componets, engines, clutches, gears, etc. will last longer due to less stress on the drive
trains. You wont have to grind away your tires trying to maintain tire ratios.
You wont have to spend $500.00 to $800.00 for a competive engine. My two
Murnan Flash 21's cost me $800.00 a piece. Great engines but lets get real!!
Dale
10-27-2009, 02:26 PM
#13
10-27-2009, 03:16 PM
#15
The Motonica P8C 2wd costs over $100 less than the 4wd car. It does share a bunch of parts with the 4wd car- rear body mount, h-arms, rear uprights, front knuckles, bumper, front body mount, axles, brakes, pulleys/gears, and hardware. A combo pack with engine will be available soon.
The 2wd cars are fine with cheap/slow motors. Next year's VOX line of engines from Motonica will include a basic 3 port engine which should sell for less than $200. Tires last longer, less parts to break and maintain. Lack of shocks and certain adjustments makes it less confusing, although maybe not so much easier to drive, but still easier to build and learn. With the constant rise of engine prices, this may not be as far fetched as one would think. For this class to come back I think it's going to have to start at the local/grassroots level and grow from there.
The 2wd cars are fine with cheap/slow motors. Next year's VOX line of engines from Motonica will include a basic 3 port engine which should sell for less than $200. Tires last longer, less parts to break and maintain. Lack of shocks and certain adjustments makes it less confusing, although maybe not so much easier to drive, but still easier to build and learn. With the constant rise of engine prices, this may not be as far fetched as one would think. For this class to come back I think it's going to have to start at the local/grassroots level and grow from there.