European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class
#3346
Tech Regular
Phil,
Check the actual results, Joe was the top qualifier in almost all of the club races this year. He won more than 20 of 27 qualifying races! From the JLap records, which may be incomplete, Joe was the only one to get into the 21 second lap time. The best recorded lap for Rick was 22.7 to Joes 21.3. Joe generally qualified over 2 seconds faster than the second qualifier.
Not to take anything away from Rick. He is a great builder and driver for sure. And if he seriously runs in the pan class he will be right at the top. The point is that Joe is the fastest and most reliable pan racer in the USA!!! (I sold him my car!)
Ned
Check the actual results, Joe was the top qualifier in almost all of the club races this year. He won more than 20 of 27 qualifying races! From the JLap records, which may be incomplete, Joe was the only one to get into the 21 second lap time. The best recorded lap for Rick was 22.7 to Joes 21.3. Joe generally qualified over 2 seconds faster than the second qualifier.
Not to take anything away from Rick. He is a great builder and driver for sure. And if he seriously runs in the pan class he will be right at the top. The point is that Joe is the fastest and most reliable pan racer in the USA!!! (I sold him my car!)
Ned
I got to watch some racing this year and Joe was truly the cream of the class. Running a car the fits right where we should be looking to go. My hats off to Joe for a super job! (Even with an old Ned car)
#3347
Tech Regular
Ideas to kick around
Why don't we set up rules for 2015 to be when they go into affect as it sounds like 2014 should be a forming up year. A year to test the waters for some and burn up what ever motors we have laying around, knowing what will be needed to be gotten for the up coming 2wd pan class.
Phil is working on getting a cheaper car into the class, that would help the class. So in turn since he has a very different lay out, turn him loose to try what ever he thinks might help. The fact it's a inline set up seems to put it into a strange gray area. That has nothing to do with Phil being strange!
Phil is working on getting a cheaper car into the class, that would help the class. So in turn since he has a very different lay out, turn him loose to try what ever he thinks might help. The fact it's a inline set up seems to put it into a strange gray area. That has nothing to do with Phil being strange!
#3348
Heh
Why don't we set up rules for 2015 to be when they go into affect as it sounds like 2014 should be a forming up year. A year to test the waters for some and burn up what ever motors we have laying around, knowing what will be needed to be gotten for the up coming 2wd pan class.
Phil is working on getting a cheaper car into the class, that would help the class. So in turn since he has a very different lay out, turn him loose to try what ever he thinks might help. The fact it's a inline set up seems to put it into a strange gray area. That has nothing to do with Phil being strange!
Phil is working on getting a cheaper car into the class, that would help the class. So in turn since he has a very different lay out, turn him loose to try what ever he thinks might help. The fact it's a inline set up seems to put it into a strange gray area. That has nothing to do with Phil being strange!
I believe what we currently have will pass any rules came up with, unless someone wants to come up with a rule to specifically deny what we have. We'll continue to make modifications based on what we have and what is on the WRC....the rules will end up conforming to the current WRC so we'll be safe there. Anything else we come up with will be strictly for fun and our own use. We still have every intent to produce a car that people can afford and have fun with, but when it comes to innovation, I'll wait till Ned decides what I'm allowed to build (no, we're not playing nicely in the sandbox today.) I did not expect to have to conform to French rules (I don't keep up with what they're doing in France), to be the dictate for our reborn class, and after seeing what Rick built, I considered building something similar. Still can't see how I could be considered to be demanding to be exempt from a rule that does not exist (at least it didn't until last night), but hey, worst case scenario is that I build whatever I want and run it, just not for points. I haven't worried about points since 1985.
No worries Lon.....we'll have fun!
#3349
Here a thought, since have start from scratch why use ROAR start our own.
#3350
Some notes bench race
2011 bumpy track sweeper layout
I used lon sr pan car 3 port kit motor
21.7 fast lap with Sedan style body
16.6 1/8th car same layout
So I get a 22.7 or so for me on a glc layout
That also sounds like what lon and I ran messing around on glc layout that year
Joe T
2013 GLC smooth pave
13 laps 5:02 side fin race body
22.4 fast lap with side fin race body
now my 1:8 scale fast lap for those years
2011, 17.88
2012, 17.68
2013, 17.48
My est lap time with a current body and 5 port motor bottom 20s or mid 20s
2011 bumpy track sweeper layout
I used lon sr pan car 3 port kit motor
21.7 fast lap with Sedan style body
16.6 1/8th car same layout
So I get a 22.7 or so for me on a glc layout
That also sounds like what lon and I ran messing around on glc layout that year
Joe T
2013 GLC smooth pave
13 laps 5:02 side fin race body
22.4 fast lap with side fin race body
now my 1:8 scale fast lap for those years
2011, 17.88
2012, 17.68
2013, 17.48
My est lap time with a current body and 5 port motor bottom 20s or mid 20s
#3351
Last Straw
Thank you for your opening my eyes.
I have better things to do that waste my time on here....
Ned
#3352
I think we have look at what we have so far and try find common ground for all. Since we have no rules start with we doing all by scratch and we have give and take find common ground for one good set rules. We have no ROAR help we on our own.
#3353
ned, that sounds like most people that work in a mach. shop !!! you have been on here since it was just a couple of us , no time too bail now. yes joe t had a great year like watching red bulls f1 team. i plan on playing too my strengths next year i'm more of a builder than driver and have a car on the go at this time. lets say it's rc 300 inspired and i plan on the vintage bods from time too time cause matts looked great. thats my fun, building and bench BSing with every one.
#3354
Hey
ned, that sounds like most people that work in a mach. shop !!! you have been on here since it was just a couple of us , no time too bail now. yes joe t had a great year like watching red bulls f1 team. i plan on playing too my strengths next year i'm more of a builder than driver and have a car on the go at this time. lets say it's rc 300 inspired and i plan on the vintage bods from time too time cause matts looked great. thats my fun, building and bench BSing with every one.
#3355
Tech Regular
iTrader: (10)
I REALLY appreciate all the work all of you guys are doing to come to a consensus on these rules. I know it can be difficult and please try to remember not to attach your "personality" to the rules you suggest. You all have a great amount of common sense and experience to draw on. I'm looking forward to the end result.
#3356
Tech Addict
Suggestion - use the Rules that are in place where the 8th Pan Class is being raced from the Race Organization that Sanctions the Races where the majority of Pan Cars are produced. Simple.
Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.
Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.
Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
#3357
Suggestion - use the Rules that are in place where the 8th Pan Class is being raced from the Race Organization that Sanctions the Races where the majority of Pan Cars are produced. Simple.
Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.
Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.
Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
#3358
Suggestion - use the Rules that are in place where the 8th Pan Class is being raced from the Race Organization that Sanctions the Races where the majority of Pan Cars are produced. Simple.
Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.
Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.
Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
aren't belts/pulleys a form of "gearbox"??.......
we need simple rules.....
1) up to 5 port turbo or non turbo... .21
2) any body....older bodies encouraged
3) 125 cc tank
4) single speed..belt or gear reduction ok..
5) one articulation...either front or back...friction damping only..
6) brakes rear of car only...
7) no oil filled dampers
8) I guess I have no problem with locked out suspension...don't see an advantage..they will probably weigh more...
9) Use wheelbase /track limits of 4WD rules...
10) I think Centax clutches ok...I saw NO advantage in my pan..
If anything...harder to tune in a pan...
11) 2300g tank empty....
#3359
Oh....joy....
...and the no gear box rule.....would exclude Cring's car...it has a gearbox.....
aren't belts/pulleys a form of "gearbox"??.......
we need simple rules.....
1) up to 5 port turbo or non turbo... .21
2) any body....older bodies encouraged
3) 125 cc tank
4) single speed..belt or gear reduction ok..
5) one articulation...either front or back...friction damping only..
6) brakes rear of car only...
7) no oil filled dampers
8) I guess I have no problem with locked out suspension...don't see an advantage..they will probably weigh more...
9) Use wheelbase /track limits of 4WD rules...
10) I think Centax clutches ok...I saw NO advantage in my pan..
If anything...harder to tune in a pan...
11) 2300g tank empty....
aren't belts/pulleys a form of "gearbox"??.......
we need simple rules.....
1) up to 5 port turbo or non turbo... .21
2) any body....older bodies encouraged
3) 125 cc tank
4) single speed..belt or gear reduction ok..
5) one articulation...either front or back...friction damping only..
6) brakes rear of car only...
7) no oil filled dampers
8) I guess I have no problem with locked out suspension...don't see an advantage..they will probably weigh more...
9) Use wheelbase /track limits of 4WD rules...
10) I think Centax clutches ok...I saw NO advantage in my pan..
If anything...harder to tune in a pan...
11) 2300g tank empty....
#3360
There is no confusing what a "gear box is" if someone doesnt well maybe they should a new hobby its pretty clear to me what a diff is and what a 2 speed is.
Can be amended to no multi speed transmissions and no vbt
Taylors list is pretty good, simple and cover a bunch
Seems fine lets not over cimplicate
Very good seems finw for 2014
And no "4wd" motors the motor rules is huge
And very important I love the lesser motor rule
The faster motors are just going to make a bigger difference between driver ....this will make for better racing
Can be amended to no multi speed transmissions and no vbt
Taylors list is pretty good, simple and cover a bunch
Seems fine lets not over cimplicate
Very good seems finw for 2014
And no "4wd" motors the motor rules is huge
And very important I love the lesser motor rule
The faster motors are just going to make a bigger difference between driver ....this will make for better racing
Last edited by Vector03cobra; 10-31-2013 at 08:42 AM.