European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class
#2656
Oy veh
I've just gotten done beating my head soundly with a large hammer and feel much better now.
For the time being, I'm still asking Edam to come up with a diff. I'm almost scared to have any other silly ideas so I'll be thinking them through rather strongly before I mention them to Edam and leave them wondering just what kind of person they are dealing with.
If we didn't have a rule against it, I'd have a rather easy solution...a few years ago, we were playing with a T-Maxx and I got the bright idea of making it four wheel steer (and yes, you can do that on a two channel setup, just piggy the one into the other but reversed.) It was incredible...would turn on a dime and had no problems with it tracking straight either. I could easily convert an Edam into a four wheel steer, which would pretty much end any turning issues, but the rules are against that and I doubt too many people would be very keen on the idea anyway.
I could also modify my front end and put the brakes there without any real trouble. I'd have to change the front hub mounting blocks, install the front drive axles, and mount an Edam brake assembly Thorp style, laying down, but it'd work. The problem with that idea, however, is it'd add more weight up front (which would probably be a good thing for handling purposes.) I think I'll have a quick look at that tomorrow, just to satisfy my engineering curiosity....
For the time being, I'm still asking Edam to come up with a diff. I'm almost scared to have any other silly ideas so I'll be thinking them through rather strongly before I mention them to Edam and leave them wondering just what kind of person they are dealing with.
If we didn't have a rule against it, I'd have a rather easy solution...a few years ago, we were playing with a T-Maxx and I got the bright idea of making it four wheel steer (and yes, you can do that on a two channel setup, just piggy the one into the other but reversed.) It was incredible...would turn on a dime and had no problems with it tracking straight either. I could easily convert an Edam into a four wheel steer, which would pretty much end any turning issues, but the rules are against that and I doubt too many people would be very keen on the idea anyway.
I could also modify my front end and put the brakes there without any real trouble. I'd have to change the front hub mounting blocks, install the front drive axles, and mount an Edam brake assembly Thorp style, laying down, but it'd work. The problem with that idea, however, is it'd add more weight up front (which would probably be a good thing for handling purposes.) I think I'll have a quick look at that tomorrow, just to satisfy my engineering curiosity....
#2657
Hm
Like I said in a post to Matt, before you can design a car, you need to set your goals.
1) Modern Pan (Moto Type)
a) Compete on equal terms and produceable for sale (gear diff, double ratio reduction, etc.)
b) Matt/Phil Type/one-off/prototype (FrankinModern, some off the shelf parts, some custom)
2) Vintage Pan (Associated 300/Delta XXX Type)
a) Deluxe (Diff, Disk Brake, adjustable front end caster, chamber, etc
b) Basic (no diff, clutch band brake, simple front end with little or no adjustment)
All types need to use "modern Wheels/Tires".
The main issues remain clutch, gears, diff (if used).
Check out these pics of old cars on Flickr, for some ideas and insight on the "good old days"! Joe P. mentioned that the cars were simplier before the availibility of CNC maching and these pics show what he's talking about.
When I started I got a $100 Dynamic Sidewinder and soon wanted a Delta. Didn't have the money so I built copies with a hack saw, files and a drill press that use a 1/4 inch hand drill! I added Delta wheels, clutch, gears, and servo saver! Can't come close to that today!!
1) Modern Pan (Moto Type)
a) Compete on equal terms and produceable for sale (gear diff, double ratio reduction, etc.)
b) Matt/Phil Type/one-off/prototype (FrankinModern, some off the shelf parts, some custom)
2) Vintage Pan (Associated 300/Delta XXX Type)
a) Deluxe (Diff, Disk Brake, adjustable front end caster, chamber, etc
b) Basic (no diff, clutch band brake, simple front end with little or no adjustment)
All types need to use "modern Wheels/Tires".
The main issues remain clutch, gears, diff (if used).
Check out these pics of old cars on Flickr, for some ideas and insight on the "good old days"! Joe P. mentioned that the cars were simplier before the availibility of CNC maching and these pics show what he's talking about.
When I started I got a $100 Dynamic Sidewinder and soon wanted a Delta. Didn't have the money so I built copies with a hack saw, files and a drill press that use a 1/4 inch hand drill! I added Delta wheels, clutch, gears, and servo saver! Can't come close to that today!!
I've built my prototype, if it works and others want one, I'll make those.
I'm committed to making new SuperJ's, the only difference being that they'll take the new tires. I'm doing this last option just because I want to, I hold no illusions that they'd be particuarly popular or sell well, I just hate that there is no American company making cars, and it's an hommage thing.
#2658
S....
Don't feel bad Phil. I built a diff a couple of weeks ago and when I was almost done and checking it out I realized that I attached the diff side wheel to the axle instead of the hub! So I had a straight axle with lots of useless parts inbetween the ends....
Do something, even if it ends up not working the way you planned!
Do something, even if it ends up not working the way you planned!
#2659
I've just gotten done beating my head soundly with a large hammer and feel much better now.
For the time being, I'm still asking Edam to come up with a diff. I'm almost scared to have any other silly ideas so I'll be thinking them through rather strongly before I mention them to Edam and leave them wondering just what kind of person they are dealing with.
If we didn't have a rule against it, I'd have a rather easy solution...a few years ago, we were playing with a T-Maxx and I got the bright idea of making it four wheel steer (and yes, you can do that on a two channel setup, just piggy the one into the other but reversed.) It was incredible...would turn on a dime and had no problems with it tracking straight either. I could easily convert an Edam into a four wheel steer, which would pretty much end any turning issues, but the rules are against that and I doubt too many people would be very keen on the idea anyway.
I could also modify my front end and put the brakes there without any real trouble. I'd have to change the front hub mounting blocks, install the front drive axles, and mount an Edam brake assembly Thorp style, laying down, but it'd work. The problem with that idea, however, is it'd add more weight up front (which would probably be a good thing for handling purposes.) I think I'll have a quick look at that tomorrow, just to satisfy my engineering curiosity....
For the time being, I'm still asking Edam to come up with a diff. I'm almost scared to have any other silly ideas so I'll be thinking them through rather strongly before I mention them to Edam and leave them wondering just what kind of person they are dealing with.
If we didn't have a rule against it, I'd have a rather easy solution...a few years ago, we were playing with a T-Maxx and I got the bright idea of making it four wheel steer (and yes, you can do that on a two channel setup, just piggy the one into the other but reversed.) It was incredible...would turn on a dime and had no problems with it tracking straight either. I could easily convert an Edam into a four wheel steer, which would pretty much end any turning issues, but the rules are against that and I doubt too many people would be very keen on the idea anyway.
I could also modify my front end and put the brakes there without any real trouble. I'd have to change the front hub mounting blocks, install the front drive axles, and mount an Edam brake assembly Thorp style, laying down, but it'd work. The problem with that idea, however, is it'd add more weight up front (which would probably be a good thing for handling purposes.) I think I'll have a quick look at that tomorrow, just to satisfy my engineering curiosity....
Simple solution might be gyro's!!! JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#2660
#2661
I'm committed to making new SuperJ's, the only difference being that they'll take the new tires. I'm doing this last option just because I want to, I hold no illusions that they'd be particuarly popular or sell well, I just hate that there is no American company making cars, and it's an hommage thing.
American companies???....what's this you speak of???.......We have machinists all around an no one can produce a whole car???with half the parts being sourced from 4WD kits?.......man I need a freakin mill
#2662
Tech Master
iTrader: (21)
..And that's the main issue I think.........finding donuts is like looking for dinosaur bones......ain't gonna happen.........BSR blew me off.........must be awesome to have so much business you tell potential customers to go blow themselves....
American companies???....what's this you speak of???.......We have machinists all around an no one can produce a whole car???with half the parts being sourced from 4WD kits?.......man I need a freakin mill
American companies???....what's this you speak of???.......We have machinists all around an no one can produce a whole car???with half the parts being sourced from 4WD kits?.......man I need a freakin mill
example a custom mount i had to do for a neighbor of mine 7 days to generate a real print then design and make 3 fixtures to hold it plus programming on the fly to make the first part and 2 hours of machine time for the second part after the first one was done so 72 hours to make 2 parts i would of rather of made 10 or 20 once it was up and running because then it gets reasonable cost wise
#2663
Heh
cost prohib to design program fixture and run to sell what a couple? i would love to have my old 3 axis running parts all day its not the machine that cost its the design and programing time now if somebody want to supply a real print or dxf or dwg autocad file ok then might have something for someone to work with some way to generate real numbers to program by or even a hard part to measure off of. the first part in any batch is the hard one
example a custom mount i had to do for a neighbor of mine 7 days to generate a real print then design and make 3 fixtures to hold it plus programming on the fly to make the first part and 2 hours of machine time for the second part after the first one was done so 72 hours to make 2 parts i would of rather of made 10 or 20 once it was up and running because then it gets reasonable cost wise
example a custom mount i had to do for a neighbor of mine 7 days to generate a real print then design and make 3 fixtures to hold it plus programming on the fly to make the first part and 2 hours of machine time for the second part after the first one was done so 72 hours to make 2 parts i would of rather of made 10 or 20 once it was up and running because then it gets reasonable cost wise
#2664
Drawings
cost prohib to design program fixture and run to sell what a couple? i would love to have my old 3 axis running parts all day its not the machine that cost its the design and programing time now if somebody want to supply a real print or dxf or dwg autocad file ok then might have something for someone to work with some way to generate real numbers to program by or even a hard part to measure off of. the first part in any batch is the hard one
example a custom mount i had to do for a neighbor of mine 7 days to generate a real print then design and make 3 fixtures to hold it plus programming on the fly to make the first part and 2 hours of machine time for the second part after the first one was done so 72 hours to make 2 parts i would of rather of made 10 or 20 once it was up and running because then it gets reasonable cost wise
example a custom mount i had to do for a neighbor of mine 7 days to generate a real print then design and make 3 fixtures to hold it plus programming on the fly to make the first part and 2 hours of machine time for the second part after the first one was done so 72 hours to make 2 parts i would of rather of made 10 or 20 once it was up and running because then it gets reasonable cost wise
I see the advantage of a more basic car would have vastly fewer and simpler parts and since more parts could be made specifically for this car and in a batch of 10 to 20 spares would be available.
BUT, could we sell 20 of them in say 6 months??
I have a line on some gears and a possible solution to get the spur gear down in diameter. Also I think I have a couple of buddies who may be able to get me CAD drawings.
?????????????????????????????
#2665
Thus is the reason I'm trying to get a consensus on what should be built. I believe a "Vintage" car (Assoc 300ish) could be built for half the cost of a "Hybrid" Modern Belt drive using "mostly 4wd parts". I would like someone to get a price list of "off the shelf" parts they feel would work and then we can sketchout the parts needed to complete it.
I see the advantage of a more basic car would have vastly fewer and simpler parts and since more parts could be made specifically for this car and in a batch of 10 to 20 spares would be available.
BUT, could we sell 20 of them in say 6 months??
I have a line on some gears and a possible solution to get the spur gear down in diameter. Also I think I have a couple of buddies who may be able to get me CAD drawings.
?????????????????????????????
I see the advantage of a more basic car would have vastly fewer and simpler parts and since more parts could be made specifically for this car and in a batch of 10 to 20 spares would be available.
BUT, could we sell 20 of them in say 6 months??
I have a line on some gears and a possible solution to get the spur gear down in diameter. Also I think I have a couple of buddies who may be able to get me CAD drawings.
?????????????????????????????
Either way, I want to race on road.
#2667
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
DFX Premium
I am learning that building a low production car has it's challenges. This DFX car is pretty cool but the manual could use some work and hand fitting or modifying everything is the name of the game. Hopefully it will run decent when it's finished. It should be ready for the Toledo MWS race.
Jeff
Jeff
#2668
I am learning that building a low production car has it's challenges. This DFX car is pretty cool but the manual could use some work and hand fitting or modifying everything is the name of the game. Hopefully it will run decent when it's finished. It should be ready for the Toledo MWS race.
Jeff
Jeff
#2669
well...
If I bought stuff in quantity, I could produce cars more cheaply. I'm planning to incorporate fiberglass/carbon fiber into the pan and servo tray eventually, but right now all I have is aluminum, it's cheap and it's durable. All the aluminum I used is very inexpensive, just the time in punching the pieces out, but if I had the local boys make 'em in quantity, they wouldn't cost all that much. Point being, for someone who already has engine/radio gear, my build wouldn't be too inexpensive for someone else. But when/if Edam builds a car, it will be much cheaper and less durable than mine, but far more durable than a 4wd.
#2670
DFX
I am learning that building a low production car has it's challenges. This DFX car is pretty cool but the manual could use some work and hand fitting or modifying everything is the name of the game. Hopefully it will run decent when it's finished. It should be ready for the Toledo MWS race.
Jeff
Jeff
My car is the Vortex model but it is very similar. I have a fiberglass main chassis plate and different rear hub layout. I built in a while ago but don't recall any issues. Major re-work of just fitting?
I have been meaning to tell you to be careful when you tighten the clamps that hold the front "axles" in position. One of mine broke, probably because I over tightend it. I was able to make a new set and not pay shipping.