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Old 03-25-2004, 07:48 AM   #61
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First and foremost... Welcome to the Orangeman.... You are a little Aggressive, even for Bali, be careful you dont get yourself banned. And everyone else here, HI...

One needs to know a little about our little 2strokers, not detroit diesel or any other... Our LITTLE nitro burning motors for cars, most under a cubic inch.

Our motors, like all two strokes are VERY dependant on back pressure and sufficient amounts to make power. This back pressure works to 'push' escaping air\fuel mixture back into the cylinder, not enough to push it out of the inlet valves though. A turbo works on the waste excaust gasses which pass at speed through a rotor\Turbine in the exhaust, as close to the manifold as posible to get the beast spinning at high RPM. but on a two stroker, there is a back pressure to contend with... Firstly the turbo will end up 'blocking' the returning puls, OR the turbo will not spin up correctly if at all because of the returning pulse. Our two strokers open and close BOTH ports at close to the same time, but both ports are closed similtaneously, and both ports are open similtaneously, you can say what you like, this does not chang with our LITTLE babies, so there fore you canot compless the air in it with the port open, which is one of the fundamental basics with a turbo or a blower, to compress more mixture into the chamber, which you cannot do if the exhaust ort is open.

There are supercharged motors, but these are 4-strokers and are a lot bigger than 0.12 or 0.21. they are 1.2+.

On the other hard Orangeman... That Super RS4 did do 100Mph, and there is a video. The motor was a turbo motor, but did not have a turbo as you and I know, it had a turbo head which is a cylinder head that holds a different design of glow plug and it is just called turbo. The guy who did it had many gears custom made and variuos other things custom made. Since then there was a car that hit 111Mph, and a tethercar that does more than 200Mph!!! none of them have a turbo cos it will not work.

One could try, I will NEVER stand in their way, you may get the engine to run, but it will be VERY lean and possible seize, or it will be a bugger to tune if you get that far.

Take it or leave it...
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Old 03-25-2004, 09:56 AM   #62
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Thumbs up yessss....

this is better....

i like this kind of 'discussion'... keep the juice flowing guys!



i cant giev any comments coz i am stupid in these things. i just like to read and watch... sorry.

mop
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Old 03-25-2004, 10:22 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaxterC
First and foremost... Welcome to the Orangeman.... You are a little Aggressive, even for Bali, be careful you dont get yourself banned. And everyone else here, HI...

One needs to know a little about our little 2strokers, not detroit diesel or any other... Our LITTLE nitro burning motors for cars, most under a cubic inch.

Our motors, like all two strokes are VERY dependant on back pressure and sufficient amounts to make power. This back pressure works to 'push' escaping air\fuel mixture back into the cylinder, not enough to push it out of the inlet valves though. A turbo works on the waste excaust gasses which pass at speed through a rotor\Turbine in the exhaust, as close to the manifold as posible to get the beast spinning at high RPM. but on a two stroker, there is a back pressure to contend with... Firstly the turbo will end up 'blocking' the returning puls, OR the turbo will not spin up correctly if at all because of the returning pulse. Our two strokers open and close BOTH ports at close to the same time, but both ports are closed similtaneously, and both ports are open similtaneously, you can say what you like, this does not chang with our LITTLE babies, so there fore you canot compless the air in it with the port open, which is one of the fundamental basics with a turbo or a blower, to compress more mixture into the chamber, which you cannot do if the exhaust ort is open.

There are supercharged motors, but these are 4-strokers and are a lot bigger than 0.12 or 0.21. they are 1.2+.

On the other hard Orangeman... That Super RS4 did do 100Mph, and there is a video. The motor was a turbo motor, but did not have a turbo as you and I know, it had a turbo head which is a cylinder head that holds a different design of glow plug and it is just called turbo. The guy who did it had many gears custom made and variuos other things custom made. Since then there was a car that hit 111Mph, and a tethercar that does more than 200Mph!!! none of them have a turbo cos it will not work.

One could try, I will NEVER stand in their way, you may get the engine to run, but it will be VERY lean and possible seize, or it will be a bugger to tune if you get that far.

Take it or leave it...
respect given on this one,...

i think I'd like to add some more points here,...
when i say it would work,.. i didn't say it'll be efficient,.. a "turbo" head and plug (or in my understanding, an "ignition-timing-advancing head and plug", because in glow engines, the nearer the plug positioned to the piston at TDC,.. or top dead center for those who are not familiar with this,...) will be more efficient in most cases...

however, I have an 8 port Hyper engine (.21 cu or 3.5 cc in size) that has internal turbine in it which pushes the air from the crank to the combustion chamber,,... I don't know how efficient it is.. but it uses a normal plug yet still performs better than other 8 port (non port-modified but with turbo head) over here. The engine has lots of torque and moderate high rpm torque (HP), and it comes as a standard engine for Ho Bao Hyper 7 1/8 buggy C-hub, Eastern Asian edition (will try to disassemble sometime this week if I have time and take some pics for you,.. very occupied with preparing "my first electric 1/10" ... wanted to race but none of my friends are interested in organising a nitro class... sic,.. silent thing,...) quite amazed actually on the fact that it could keep up w/ nitro cars?!?! btw, I run a Kawada Sigma w/ a modified Orion 12T motor, KO Keyence ESC, on 3300 mAh matched Fukuyama batts,... are there anyone experienced w/ electrics in this thread?! I need to know if these things are considered good enough or could be bettered?!

back to the extreme topic again,... I think (still) it is poss. as this Hyper engine has a turbine installed inside it ( I think rear side of crank... but in front of pull-starter plate at opposite direction...

if anyone knows any "truth" about this engine (Hyper 8 port) educate me please,.. as I haven't opened it personally yet

have a happy r/c day
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:31 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by orangbaligila
respect given on this one,...

i think I'd like to add some more points here,...
when i say it would work,.. i didn't say it'll be efficient,.. a "turbo" head and plug (or in my understanding, an "ignition-timing-advancing head and plug", because in glow engines, the nearer the plug positioned to the piston at TDC,.. or top dead center for those who are not familiar with this,...) will be more efficient in most cases...

however, I have an 8 port Hyper engine (.21 cu or 3.5 cc in size) that has internal turbine in it which pushes the air from the crank to the combustion chamber,,... I don't know how efficient it is.. but it uses a normal plug yet still performs better than other 8 port (non port-modified but with turbo head) over here. The engine has lots of torque and moderate high rpm torque (HP), and it comes as a standard engine for Ho Bao Hyper 7 1/8 buggy C-hub, Eastern Asian edition (will try to disassemble sometime this week if I have time and take some pics for you,.. very occupied with preparing "my first electric 1/10" ... wanted to race but none of my friends are interested in organising a nitro class... sic,.. silent thing,...) quite amazed actually on the fact that it could keep up w/ nitro cars?!?! btw, I run a Kawada Sigma w/ a modified Orion 12T motor, KO Keyence ESC, on 3300 mAh matched Fukuyama batts,... are there anyone experienced w/ electrics in this thread?! I need to know if these things are considered good enough or could be bettered?!

back to the extreme topic again,... I think (still) it is poss. as this Hyper engine has a turbine installed inside it ( I think rear side of crank... but in front of pull-starter plate at opposite direction...

if anyone knows any "truth" about this engine (Hyper 8 port) educate me please,.. as I haven't opened it personally yet

have a happy r/c day
Hi there Orangeman... I know what that is that you are talking about... My Novarossi has it too, it is a 'cut' in the crank that helps the engine clear out the mixture in the crank. This does help the engine 'move' the mixture into the cylinder. remember that these little engines when they are idling and at low revs, do not use all the fuel sitting in the area under the piston, and this 'bogs' the motor down and can cause the motor to bog down. also one does not have the torque you could need. This cut helps the engine clear more fuel from this area, this gives the engine a better idle (hardly noticeable) but gives the motor more torque, but remember that you need a decent tuned pipe to help force the escaping mixture at the exhaust back into the cylinder. I will find a pic that may help with the explanation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg crank.jpg (5.6 KB, 235 views)
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:41 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by orangbaligila
respect given on this one,...

i think I'd like to add some more points here,...
when i say it would work,.. i didn't say it'll be efficient,.. a "turbo" head and plug (or in my understanding, an "ignition-timing-advancing head and plug", because in glow engines, the nearer the plug positioned to the piston at TDC,.. or top dead center for those who are not familiar with this,...) will be more efficient in most cases...

however, I have an 8 port Hyper engine (.21 cu or 3.5 cc in size) that has internal turbine in it which pushes the air from the crank to the combustion chamber,,... I don't know how efficient it is.. but it uses a normal plug yet still performs better than other 8 port (non port-modified but with turbo head) over here. The engine has lots of torque and moderate high rpm torque (HP), and it comes as a standard engine for Ho Bao Hyper 7 1/8 buggy C-hub, Eastern Asian edition (will try to disassemble sometime this week if I have time and take some pics for you,.. very occupied with preparing "my first electric 1/10" ... wanted to race but none of my friends are interested in organising a nitro class... sic,.. silent thing,...) quite amazed actually on the fact that it could keep up w/ nitro cars?!?! btw, I run a Kawada Sigma w/ a modified Orion 12T motor, KO Keyence ESC, on 3300 mAh matched Fukuyama batts,... are there anyone experienced w/ electrics in this thread?! I need to know if these things are considered good enough or could be bettered?!

back to the extreme topic again,... I think (still) it is poss. as this Hyper engine has a turbine installed inside it ( I think rear side of crank... but in front of pull-starter plate at opposite direction...

if anyone knows any "truth" about this engine (Hyper 8 port) educate me please,.. as I haven't opened it personally yet

have a happy r/c day
If still interested in EP TC 1/10 racing, pls come and fight in SUBWAY(Sby) march28 as a warmup then lets go to EP Nats 1, Apr3-4 in JITC(Jkt).
See you.
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:45 AM   #66
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orange & baxter:

you two are on separate pages. the so called "turbine" in your hyper 8 port is not a turbine. it is used to move air and fuel mixture but to what advantage and what end i do not know. the "turbo scoop" on the counterweights of most competitive 2 stroke engines helps with the induction process.

i hope this doesnt lead you guys to actually believe our little two strokes are turbo charged .

i have seen in my RC world magazine someone supercharging the OS .26 4 stroke engine. if you must supercharge something, i guess that would work, but i agree with the majority here that the 2 strokes we use in our cars cannot be supercharged or turbocharged.

oh, and the comments about the rotary engine. the true benefit of the rotary engine is its lightweight and compact design. also since the engine goes through a continous motion during its combustion cycle, the parasitic loss is a lot less than conventional combustion engines where the piston has to stop at the bottom and top to make a cycle. mileage on these engine from what i know are horrible, but the fact remains that it does make quite a lot of power from such a small package.

the governing body banned the rotary engine after the Mazda 787B won the le mans in 91. if memory serves, the governing body also penalized the car initially saying the displacement is the entire volume chamber, not just the stroke volume. i believe they made mazda add on extra weight to the car prior to the race.

P.S. orange: there are a lot of knowledgeable people that visit these threads. everyone can voice their opinions obviously but your posts are too aggressive (rude?). perhaps tone it down a bit.
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:09 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by icon
orange & baxter:

you two are on separate pages. the so called "turbine" in your hyper 8 port is not a turbine. it is used to move air and fuel mixture but to what advantage and what end i do not know. the "turbo scoop" on the counterweights of most competitive 2 stroke engines helps with the induction process.

i hope this doesnt lead you guys to actually believe our little two strokes are turbo charged .

i have seen in my RC world magazine someone supercharging the OS .26 4 stroke engine. if you must supercharge something, i guess that would work, but i agree with the majority here that the 2 strokes we use in our cars cannot be supercharged or turbocharged.

oh, and the comments about the rotary engine. the true benefit of the rotary engine is its lightweight and compact design. also since the engine goes through a continous motion during its combustion cycle, the parasitic loss is a lot less than conventional combustion engines where the piston has to stop at the bottom and top to make a cycle. mileage on these engine from what i know are horrible, but the fact remains that it does make quite a lot of power from such a small package.

the governing body banned the rotary engine after the Mazda 787B won the le mans in 91. if memory serves, the governing body also penalized the car initially saying the displacement is the entire volume chamber, not just the stroke volume. i believe they made mazda add on extra weight to the car prior to the race.

P.S. orange: there are a lot of knowledgeable people that visit these threads. everyone can voice their opinions obviously but your posts are too aggressive (rude?). perhaps tone it down a bit.
Icon, Thank you. I thank you for the clarification, it is what I was trying to say. Do you know what this 'turbine' looks like, I thought it was the turbo scoop I was discribing. Is there a difference. I know the hyper engines rather well, I am a bit runty in the 'new developments' department
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:04 AM   #68
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baxter:

its just an additional piece that is driven by the crank in the case. looks almost like one of those ducted fan assemblies. i dont really see anything beneficial to the design and may even be more a disadvantage because of the added weight for the crank to carry.

the only reason i know is because my friend took apart a hyper engine before and i saw the assembly. but this was a while ago and the newer hyper engines may have dumped the design.
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:15 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by icon
baxter:

its just an additional piece that is driven by the crank in the case. looks almost like one of those ducted fan assemblies. i dont really see anything beneficial to the design and may even be more a disadvantage because of the added weight for the crank to carry.

the only reason i know is because my friend took apart a hyper engine before and i saw the assembly. but this was a while ago and the newer hyper engines may have dumped the design.
Oh great thank you. This is a bit of a strange thing... I suppose it is an advancement on the turbo scoop bit. Thank you, one learns more everyday.
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:43 AM   #70
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dunno if i'd call it an advancement, but it doesnt hurt to try implementing an idea to see if it works.
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:50 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoldFinger
If still interested in EP TC 1/10 racing, pls come and fight in SUBWAY(Sby) march28 as a warmup then lets go to EP Nats 1, Apr3-4 in JITC(Jkt).
See you.
we have an open race as well,... (prepped parking lot track)
at the exact same date but I'm not in that race tho' electric is a new thing to me,... rada nervous,... very nimble car,... lots of speed,..hehe...

we'll visit you guys sometime (it's in our plan), maybe in a nitro event


best regards


on behalf of Orange r/c Bali
Kris
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:05 AM   #72
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Well, I( have just had an idea, in the port in the crank, one could add a similar type of system, BUT, one would have to have only maybe 2 blades or fins, but at the right angle as not to slow the mixture...

This would help with two things, one, it will help get the mixture out of this port, and it will help with mixing the ... mixture more. this could work very nicely... but remember that it will just get the fuel through the crank and get it into the area under the piston (cant remember what it is called) Any ideas, but please note that I am not talking anything more than moving the fuel through, there will be no real boost in pressure, but it may get more into the cylinder, but you will need a GOOD exhaust or you may not accomplish anything.
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:11 AM   #73
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Quote from Icon:
P.S. orange: there are a lot of knowledgeable people that visit these threads. everyone can voice their opinions obviously but your posts are too aggressive (rude?). perhaps tone it down a bit.

well, I didn't mean to be rude or any other negative behaviour before got penalised and (IMHO) "slightly",... ahem,... insulted,... maybe it's just me but it felt bad y'know...

about undisclosed things like this turbo concept on 2-stroke model engines,... my final opinion is 50-50 as I've never proved it myself, but has the urge to try, and feels it might work (once again, not in a big margin).... apart from the creators of these kits,... I guess no one in this thread has ever tried the particular kit (not self-manufactured)

about the hyper engine, I've sold quite a number of these engines to some racer over here. cheap and powerful engine'll never hurt you I dunno about how good is it actually (stats) but I've smoked similar cars (from Ho Bao or Ofna range,... not the Kanai spec buggies) fitted with other engines, maybe it was the setting, but it does have an edge compared to other "conventional" Hypers, and some but not all high performance 2.1 engines

btw, for those who don't know the shape of this turbine,... it looks a lot like some jet-ski's turbine,.. and older turbo-snail's turbinr (that's why i called it turbine...

as for the rotaries,... dude,... i don't have any bad intentions,.. but personally, I was about to plant a rotary in my Galant,... just for the"ooomph,.." factor,... but still,... it won't be that "fair" when run against normal Otto 4-strokers,... I'd feel bad everytime I smoke others' ride,.. cause I know the truth,.... and I don't like cheating, well... most of the times, hehe....


have a boosted day
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:16 AM   #74
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Default hey baxter,..

hi,... I'm all curious when I saw the engine pic you attached,...
the newspapers underneath the engine are indonesian newspapers,... hmm,... hehehehe...
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:25 AM   #75
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Default Re: hey baxter,..

Quote:
Originally posted by orangbaligila
hi,... I'm all curious when I saw the engine pic you attached,...
the newspapers underneath the engine are indonesian newspapers,... hmm,... hehehehe...
honestly, I didn't even check, I got the pic from rcnitro's site as I want to show the turbo scoop, I didn't even see the newspapers...

Your Gallant, is it a Mitsubishi? we have one or two Gallants here but different countries have different names for cars.... Our Opel is Brittains Vauxhaul and our VW Polo is Europes Skoda and such...
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