R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-30-2009, 08:37 AM   #1
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14
Default Xceed US, Japanese and Italian Foam

Hello!
Does anyone know what are the differences between these foam types?
(American, Italian, Japanese).

FranQBs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 08:53 AM   #2
ND
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranQBs View Post
Hello!
Does anyone know what are the differences between these foam types?
(American, Italian, Japanese).

Basically they're different brands produced for Xceed, American is Jaco rubber on Xceed wheels, Italian is Ennetti rubber on Xceed wheel and Japanese is supposed to be the same as Kawahara rubber on Xceed wheel.
ND is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 09:16 AM   #3
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14
Default

So the hardnesses and tyre-wears are bassicly simmilar?
FranQBs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 10:54 AM   #4
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

All the same rubber, just different wheels.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 11:46 AM   #5
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.moorebankraceway.com
Posts: 5,119
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
All the same rubber, just different wheels.
nah man not true. The CRC website had the best write up on this and basically it goes like this:

there are three types of foam. Japanese, North American, and European.

1) JAPANESE FOAM
-has a higher rubber content, and is generally a softer type of foam. It has more grip as well (generally than US spec foam) it's designed predominantly for medium temperature or cold type conditions, and designed for tourers generally which are lighter and hence don't produce as much heat as the 8th's (see euro spec foam description).

2)US SPEC FOAM
-has less rubber content, generally less grip on ashpalt because of this. It's predominantly designed with less rubber as US racer tend to do indoor racing more often, so the market/design of the foam requires less grip, and the grip is generally produced by the higher heat that this racing creates on carpet

3) EURO FOAM
-a denser (CRC calls it a "wetter" type) foam, with a rubber content between the jap and us foams. it's also a heavier foam, and is predominantly designed for use with 8th scale as this is/was the bigger class in europe.


obviously rim design, and the hardness of the plastic also affects grip levels. Softer rim, generally more grip, but also not as suitable to high grip tracks, and the harder rim is less grip on low grip tracks but more balanced on high grip tracks.

This is what i remember from the CRC website. Obviously with the change in popularity of some classes, some manufacturers may have chaged their foam type used. For example ATS now use Jap style foam. Gandinni used to use the euro style foam on their tourers, not sure what they use now.

Also Jaco may or may not have changed foam types, i haven't seen the new prisms yet.

GQ use a jap style foam but on a hard rim, so the foam feels like it wears and "drives" differently to say the kawaharra foam.

anyone else heard the rumour that Kawaharra is now out of business?
TomB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 02:35 PM   #6
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

All 1/8th tires use Jap foam. It doesn't matter where they are made, it is all the same Jap foam. This came straight from Jack at Jaco. All the other foams (itallian, US, etc.) are only used in other classes, mainly carpet.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 03:32 PM   #7
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 478
Send a message via MSN to PMSorber
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
All 1/8th tires use Jap foam. It doesn't matter where they are made, it is all the same Jap foam. This came straight from Jack at Jaco. All the other foams (itallian, US, etc.) are only used in other classes, mainly carpet.
In dont think so (know so), there is a deffinitive difference. I agree that all foam comes from just 2 or 3 manufacturers but its not all "Jap" foam. Its the difference where the donuts are cut from the carpet and where (from the 3) the carpet comes from.

Its to easy to say "its all Jap".

The post from TomB is quite good.

PS I did not know that there where problems at Kawahara, I only know of JP...
__________________
@ConSult Trading
Team Shepherd, PiraniRC, Sonic and Awesomatix BENELUX
www.team-shepherd.nl
PMSorber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 06:24 PM   #8
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

All the foam comes from the exact same place, but I never said there could not be some differences. Different wheels will handle differently. Some manufacturers durometers are not exactly the same, one companies 35 might be another's 37. Some might get fresh batches, others old stock. Plus it wouldn't surprise me if where the donut comes from out of the sheet makes a difference. My point was not that there was no difference from one brand to the next, my point is that Italian tires still use Jap rubber, not Italian rubber just like the US and other manufacturers do. It doesn't matter where the tire is made, it's how it is made.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 10:21 PM   #9
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 271
Send a message via Yahoo to sheeley
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
nah man not true. The CRC website had the best write up on this and basically it goes like this:

there are three types of foam. Japanese, North American, and European.

1) JAPANESE FOAM
-has a higher rubber content, and is generally a softer type of foam. It has more grip as well (generally than US spec foam) it's designed predominantly for medium temperature or cold type conditions, and designed for tourers generally which are lighter and hence don't produce as much heat as the 8th's (see euro spec foam description).

2)US SPEC FOAM
-has less rubber content, generally less grip on ashpalt because of this. It's predominantly designed with less rubber as US racer tend to do indoor racing more often, so the market/design of the foam requires less grip, and the grip is generally produced by the higher heat that this racing creates on carpet

3) EURO FOAM
-a denser (CRC calls it a "wetter" type) foam, with a rubber content between the jap and us foams. it's also a heavier foam, and is predominantly designed for use with 8th scale as this is/was the bigger class in europe.


obviously rim design, and the hardness of the plastic also affects grip levels. Softer rim, generally more grip, but also not as suitable to high grip tracks, and the harder rim is less grip on low grip tracks but more balanced on high grip tracks.

This is what i remember from the CRC website. Obviously with the change in popularity of some classes, some manufacturers may have chaged their foam type used. For example ATS now use Jap style foam. Gandinni used to use the euro style foam on their tourers, not sure what they use now.

Also Jaco may or may not have changed foam types, i haven't seen the new prisms yet.

GQ use a jap style foam but on a hard rim, so the foam feels like it wears and "drives" differently to say the kawaharra foam.

anyone else heard the rumour that Kawaharra is now out of business?
nice, good to know
sheeley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 12:30 AM   #10
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 314
Default

We had plenty of discussions in the past like this one. Usually Jack Riemer posts his opinion at this point.
However, we will end up with no conclusion because the tire manufacturers are very tight lipped in this regard and don't tell their secrets...
fulcrum2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 09:09 AM   #11
Tech Fanatic
 
kitracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: hong kong
Posts: 986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
In dont think so (know so), there is a deffinitive difference. I agree that all foam comes from just 2 or 3 manufacturers but its not all "Jap" foam. Its the difference where the donuts are cut from the carpet and where (from the 3) the carpet comes from.

Its to easy to say "its all Jap".

The post from TomB is quite good.

PS I did not know that there where problems at Kawahara, I only know of JP...
Yes, Kawahara have closed their RC business , very sad No more kawahara cup.
__________________
Nitro-x Tomorrow Fuel today
Blitz body the champion choice
kitracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 03:38 PM   #12
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeley View Post
nice, good to know
Good to know, but this chart only refers to the type of foam manufactured in each region, NOT what foam each RC company uses. All the gas rubber used is Japanese. Period. We use it. They use it. Everyone uses it. There is just enough information out there to keep everyone confused and in the dark. I have no motivation to mislead or misinform anyone. What would I gain? An informed consumer is better equipped to make an educated purchase than someone who is fed a line of crap.
There are just as many reasons brand A runs different from Brand B that have nothing to do with where the rubber comes from:
Variations from batch to batch (cell structure)
Season the rubber was manufactured
Rim stiffness
Rim material and how it reacts to heat and cold
ID of the donut (stretch)
Amount of heat generated by the truing process
Age of rubber
Flexibility of the contact adhesive joining the rings
How a company marks a tire (durometer)- This is the biggest difference
Heat generated during cutting of the donut
Not to mention about 10,000 car or track variables that could impact how a "tire" performs from run to run.
Jack Rimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 03:43 PM   #13
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Thank you Jack, I keep trying to explain this but very few people believe me.

There is another factor as to why some tires work different. I want to right up a post about it but I would need a drawing and a full page to describe it. Not sure it is worth the time to do it here.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 04:07 PM   #14
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14
Default

what is this donut? The rounded edge of tire or what?

BTW I'm not sure, if the foam is glued to rim. I think it could be moulded onto rim. In free time I will cut one wheel into halfs and see. I have plastic moulding company so I know something in this topic.
FranQBs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2009, 04:22 PM   #15
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Donut is the cylindrical piece of foam after it is cut from the sheet but before it's glued to the rim.

Yes they are glued to the rim, though I seem to recall hearing something about someone molding them on. Haven't seen that yet though.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:05 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net