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Old 01-05-2004, 07:57 PM   #1
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Default 1/10 Sedan reviews needed.

I'm in Okinawa for the next 10 months and found a track to run the nitro sedans on. I've never really been in the know with the nitro sedans however. I've raced off-road for about 16 years and I've done some electric sedan racing but there are a lot more nitro sedans manufacturers than there were when I last did this (about '96 at Revelation).

I've been reading through the manufacturer specific threads trying to pull as much info as possible but with hundreds of pages per topic its proven to be tedious. I've ran a search using review type inputs and havent come up with much.

Would you guys be willing to put your specific input in to this thread to help me make an educated decision on my next purchase? I would be interested in your experience with your particular car, not what you have seen.

I'm somewhere right in the middle when it comes to driving styles I guess. I'll run it in deep or take a nice flowing line depending on the situation. I flow when I'm alone, I'll throw it in a corner when I'm on the attack or driving defensively. I'm a better than average driver and would even say in the upper echelon (though I bet most people think that). That being said the car isnt going to out drive me for long

I have no preference toward manufacturer since my brand loyalty is to Losi and they dont seem to have a nitro sedan offering. I care not if its shaft or belt driven as both have won plenty of races. I did have an electric TC3 (Factory Team with a few extra goodies) that I wasnt overly impressed with, nice car just lacked that certain "something." I'm from the school that to much steering is not enough, I've always found it much easier to take it away than it was to find it.

Would like to keep the car, motor, and pipe under $500 which shouldnt be to hard.

So what I'm looking for I guess is a car with a lot of steering and that has a silky smooth drivetrain. Parts availability isnt a concern since our LHS carries a few Yokomo and Colt parts (will be mail order for everything). I like the pillow ball suspension but thats only because I feel its "tighter" in its adjustments, definitly not a determining factor in my purchase however.

Looking forward to your inputs, please speak from the head and not the heart though. Your bias wont help me and thats all I'm interested in right now

Last edited by madweazl; 01-06-2004 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:58 PM   #2
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The LHS does carry Mugen Seiki parts though they dont sell any of there kits so that may be a plus.
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Old 01-05-2004, 10:36 PM   #3
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Look at this one

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...ory=44017&rd=1
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Old 01-05-2004, 10:56 PM   #4
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Default It's simple then......

Go with a Mugen. It's probably the most runcar at the track you are at. Parts support is right there at the LHS. No doubt it's a very stout car. Just find a retailer online that sells em and pony up. You wont be sorry. Also, set-up right out of the box is veryneutral and you can tweek from there
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: It's simple then......

Quote:
Originally posted by hicheef
Go with a Mugen. It's probably the most runcar at the track you are at. Parts support is right there at the LHS. No doubt it's a very stout car. Just find a retailer online that sells em and pony up. You wont be sorry. Also, set-up right out of the box is veryneutral and you can tweek from there
right, if you are in japan, race with the japanese cars. you cannot go wrong with them because of parts support and setup support.

i.e. mugen or kyosho. if you want yokomo, you need to wait for a bit longer for their new GT4
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:49 PM   #6
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I'm in Okinawa, parts are not readily available for any car other than the Colt on island. I wish it was a different story.

What are your likes and dislikes of the Mugens? It looks as though it is a very popular car on these boards, what has made it such? I like Mugen and Ofna, never had either but I've liked their 1/8 scale offerings. Never been a big fan of Kyosho because a long while back (probably 10 years ago now) the finish of parts and directions where horrible. I can live with the directions as I've been doing this a long time but parts fitment has to be good. Things have probably changed but I still wont go with Kyosho (I didnt even like the Infernos!).

Ofna's car sure seems like a steal at the price. I've also been looking at the Trinity and Mugen. I'm still weeding through all the posts in the car specific threads.
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:55 PM   #7
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HPI R40!!!



That's my R40. if you're abroad, then you should be able to get one dirt cheap, and parts are just as cheap. it's silky smooth and is a very neutral car.

It's the cheapest "pro kit" you'll find. the others (mugen, serpent, etc) are priced well above $300 US.

As far as kit/engine/pipe for under $500, you're gonna haveto skimp on an engine... what about a start box, radio, etc?
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Old 01-06-2004, 04:13 PM   #8
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If you are looking for opinions from people who have actually owned cars (which is a very good point). I can tell you that I have only owned 2 types of nitro touring cars. I had several NTC3's and they are great for bashing or running on unprepped surfaces, but when you get to a track it's a very different story. I found the Ntc3 to be quite fragile, and I was always looking for more steering with the car (which is a point you mentioned).
Now for my other car the mugen mtx3. To sum it up I love the mugen car. No its not for running on unprepped surfaces but an all out racer. This car is extremely durable and easy to drive. The stock set up works awesome (and this car has plenty of steering for me). In my opinion if you are getting the car to race at a track look no further than the mugen. Now on a side note the new serpent 710 also looks to be a great car but since it is so new I will/would wait for others to figure out if it is all that. Good luck and have fun
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Old 01-06-2004, 04:18 PM   #9
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I'm ordering an Airtronics MX-3 in the next few days and I still have to pick up a starter box but thats another budget.

Neutral is good provided I can pull a lot of steering out of it if I want too. Provide some more info about this car too please. If we can actually set up a review type thread I think it would benefit everyone. Maybe we could come up with a series of common questions.

Handling

Steering
Over/under steer
Neutrality (is that a word)
Adjustability

Stability
Straightline
Cornering

Overall traction

Weight
Balance

Parts
Fit and finish
Quality
Strength
Cost

If you can think of others or a better way post it, lets get something like this going though. It might help with the "what one should I get" questions being asked all the time, certainly help me out a bit since I can go to the shop and check any of them out for myself. Pictures can only show so much, and based on pictures alone I like the Trinity G4 the most, I like the low CG configuration, I prefer the tank in the middle of the car along with the motor being centered. I dont however know much else about the car.
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Old 01-06-2004, 07:08 PM   #10
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Default You've got a lot of questions....

You might try doing a little homkework yourself, all the answers are out there you just have to look. The car is very neutral out of the box, definitely stout, strong, parts support is there, infinitely adjustable. A joke to consider it in the same sentence with an OFNA. Trying to set up a review type thread is like the old Chevy v. Ford thing, I mean really. Opinions are like a$&holes, everybody's got one and you'll just start a huge flame war. You want to start one of those just declare your alegiance to a certain product on the wrong thread, there you got your war.
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Old 01-06-2004, 07:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbmon
If you are looking for opinions from people who have actually owned cars (which is a very good point). I can tell you that I have only owned 2 types of nitro touring cars. I had several NTC3's and they are great for bashing or running on unprepped surfaces, but when you get to a track it's a very different story. I found the Ntc3 to be quite fragile, and I was always looking for more steering with the car (which is a point you mentioned).
Now for my other car the mugen mtx3. To sum it up I love the mugen car. No its not for running on unprepped surfaces but an all out racer. This car is extremely durable and easy to drive. The stock set up works awesome (and this car has plenty of steering for me). In my opinion if you are getting the car to race at a track look no further than the mugen. Now on a side note the new serpent 710 also looks to be a great car but since it is so new I will/would wait for others to figure out if it is all that. Good luck and have fun
Hello sbmon,
I have a MTX3 n no experience with shaft cars. Heard alot about shaft cars smoother than belted ones, they're faster, more efficient trans and turns sharper. Appreciate if you can share a little more on your experience with both these cars. Thanks.
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Old 01-06-2004, 09:38 PM   #12
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I found the best thing about the mugen is the durability (says something about my driving , but with a more durable car I am able to finish races which means more time driving and this is making me a better driver)
I found the worst thing about Ntc3 was durability but atleast it is extremely easy to wrench on. Yes the shaft drive car Ntc3 is more free rolling/smoother than the belted mtx3. But depending upon your driving style that extra efficiency may or may not be to your benefit (I remember quite a few people who set drag brakes on the ntc3, kinda defeats the purpose of an efficient drive train but to each their own) A down side to the efficient shaft drive train is the fact that it is so direct that powerful engines seem to wear the gears quite easily. While acceleration probably was a little better with the shaft car, I did not get a centax clutch for the ntc3 so tuning the clutch was a bit mor tedios when compared to the Mtx3's centax which is included with the kit, and when adjusted right accelleration is still very good with the mugen.
As for which car turns sharper this is a tough one, cause you can alter the suspension settings so much with either car it doesn't really depend on the car so much as the set up and tire choice. But if you try running a solid axle in the Ntc3 (in hopes of getting more steering)
good luck , cause i have never seen the ntc3 run with a solid up front that lasted more than 4 tanks of fuel in racing conditions.
So basically both cars have there good and bad points
For me personally in the conditions i use the cars I have found the mugen to have many more good points than the ntc3
and thats why i like it.
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Old 01-06-2004, 10:12 PM   #13
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Thank you sbmon for the detailed insight!

From all the inputs I have, I gathered that belt trans offers control without slowing the car down.
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Old 01-09-2004, 05:05 AM   #14
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Default NTC3 vs. MTX3 vs. <nameityouhere>

Hi:

Me too I've had the NTC3 and the MTX3 and trying to tell you an unbiased comment of the two is almost impossible but will struggle to do.

As sbmon said, NTC3 is the champ in unprepared surfaces, their sealed gearboxes is definitive here, the shaft transmission dictates a very compact and simple transmission that excels into a very low drag tranny, this means more power transferred into the ground. This is a handicap too, specially on low traction tracks the lack of belt strenght says for a very responsive throttle and probably a very pretty wheelspin with the lose in traction and control.

This low drag transmission dictates you in a different driving stile, to reach the same speed in a turn, you may need to release earlier the throttle and make the inertia of the transmission do the rest, sometimes, the disk is abused by this, but the brake pads are real fine to do this task, sometimes I've seen a colored and warped brake disk (really abused), but is a secondary problem (Hey AE, think on a vented disk... changed 3 disks in less than a year).

Car sometimes is fragile and prone to break and/or change their setup if you slam the boards, this is specially true if you fit the Graphite conversion (IMHO: The worst cancer you can fit in your car).

The stock setup was less than usable, at least for me and neeeded to rework the stock setup and have my own baseline for the setups (very true on the 'foam setup'). Was a car that gave some headaches and many hours of thinkering to get a good performing car.

Other places to revise from the car is the stock clutch... the stock clutch springs are the first one you need to change it to have a better clutch. The car lacks of anti roll bars and front one-way (needed if you plan to run foams). Servo saver spring was needed to be changed for a stiffer one (don't know if this has been revised in later running changes of the car).

The fuel tank, gave some headaches in the past (thrust me, had the old and 'dreaded' tank and didn't had any problems with it), other that shocks people is the funky exhaust pipe, and forces you to use the LD3, the RD Logics or the AE pipe, so pipe selection is somewhat limited.

The MTX3 was a very pleasant experience to assemble, all the part fit without problems, weren't any parts that needed a deburr (well, the shock pistons needed some filing, but this was all the parts that needed a filing or deburring), the manual isn't for a novice, the lack of explanations is compensated by the quality of the drawings.

The stock setup of the MTX3 is about at 90% of the ideal setup on all the tracks I've been (bravo Mugen for this). Only minor tweaks to adapt it to personal likings. Adapting to different track conditions doesn't means to have a miryad of parts like springs, oils, different rollbars, etc... In fact, the stock springs are the best performing ones in all around, in fact, Mugen released a little stiffer springs than the stock to permit better tunning.

Durability: The alloy used on plastic parts is very stiff (not brittle) and durable. In fact after a full season and more than a year (14 months) of racing with this car: this is all the parts I've broke so far in this car:

- Rear bulkheads (broke a nipple that supports the rear shock tower).
- Front upright.
- Rear A-arm.
- Front belt (only one), the rest of belts have been changed as a precaution lately, with more than 50 litres of fuel drawn by the tank.

Adjustability: Is a very tunable car, responsive with the changes you do it... in fact, you can do a change and determine in a lap or two if you did it well. In fact... when I tune mine car all what I do is a pair of laps and see if it improves and pit another time. Very responsible and very adjustable.

Price: Probably isn't one of the cheapest cars, but to be fair, it includes parts that are considered optional in other cars: Centax-like clutch, front adjustable roll bar, rear roll bar...

Hop-ups: Is one of the cars with more hop-ups available on the market. You name it, probably is available from someone. Try to get a pair of MTX3 cars from two different people and see they put different parts on their cars. Isn't a matter of correcting defective parts, is somewhat like tunning. But in between this miryad of parts, very few are interesting to put (this has been discussed a lot of times on the MTX3 thread, just fall by and ask for). But on their stock incarnation is a very serious performer that doesn't need hop-ups. Each MTX3 owner put what he wanted to their cars, but in the base, remains being one of the fastest and easiest cars to drive and adjust.

Is a 'mature' car. This isn't bad... shows how fine was made and engineered. In fact, along the NTC3 is one of the 'oldest' cars in the market that is competitive on the track (V1r has the Evolution model and almost everyone switched to Evo). Mugen will not launch one car each 6 to 9 months and ask you for a complete change of car (like others do...).

Probably you can still asking but many people who drives an MTX3, drove an NTC3 in the past and many will tell you the same, all two are fine cars, but the Mugen (and others.... just check FastHarry ) convinced to many many many people who decided to leave running the NTC3 for the MTX3 or the R40 or the... <nameityouhere>.
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Old 01-09-2004, 07:01 AM   #15
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corse-r
very well said
(main point wanna race prepped track buy the mugen & debur the shock pistons
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