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Old 10-29-2009, 08:44 AM   #886
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Hi guys does anyone know if the wieights that go in the throw out clutch shoes come in the 09 kit?
cheers
my kit came with enough set screws to use as weights in the centrifugal shoes, When I bought the Kfactory shoes I also used set screws in them
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:18 AM   #887
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Hey Guys...I'm used to the Serpent Centax clutch and in terms of shimming would normally shim between the thrust race and thrust race collar to set the clutch gap and then between the end of the clutch nut and inner bearing to remove the end play.

Have read the K-Factory piece which seems to suggest the opposite - ie setting the clutch gap by shimming between the clutch nut and inner bearing and then between the thrust race and thrust race collar to remove end play.

This is backwards to what I'm used to and not sure of the mechanics of the difference.

How are you guys approaching this..?

Thanks
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:44 PM   #888
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Originally Posted by aizenbelle View Post
my kit came with enough set screws to use as weights in the centrifugal shoes, When I bought the Kfactory shoes I also used set screws in them
I would of thought that the set screws would of been to light to use in the flyout shoes, so do the weights that go in the flyout shoes come within the 09 g4rs kit??
cheers
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:02 AM   #889
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I would of thought that the set screws would of been to light to use in the flyout shoes, so do the weights that go in the flyout shoes come within the 09 g4rs kit??
cheers
like I said my kit had enough leftover set screws to use as weights but you may buy them at your LHS for under five dollars

If there is anything else we can use I'd like to know
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:30 PM   #890
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Originally Posted by aussies1129 View Post
I would of thought that the set screws would of been to light to use in the flyout shoes, so do the weights that go in the flyout shoes come within the 09 g4rs kit??
cheers
Ive cut small weights from a burred/rounded hex shaft in the past. They also make good pivot rods.

h
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:32 PM   #891
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like I said my kit had enough leftover set screws to use as weights but you may buy them at your LHS for under five dollars

If there is anything else we can use I'd like to know
In them olden days you used to get little brass weights that fitted in the holes in the shoe... havent seen them in ages though.

I think the little 3x3 set screws work just as well and have he added benefit that they dont fall out when you take the clutch apart.

The answer is no they dont come in the kit.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:25 PM   #892
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In them olden days you used to get little brass weights that fitted in the holes in the shoe... havent seen them in ages though.

I think the little 3x3 set screws work just as well and have he added benefit that they dont fall out when you take the clutch apart.

The answer is no they dont come in the kit.
thanks thats the info I am after, yes they came with the old rs clutch strange that they are not available for the 09?
cheers
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:32 PM   #893
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Default Gearing Combo

Hey guys has anyone tried 17/23 yet like to get some feedback thanks.
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:09 AM   #894
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Default team magic g4rs 2009

well im about 3/4 of the way thru the build of my touring car and i have some questions
1 are the tires for this car off set
2 im having a problem getting the rear anti roll rod cap screw started thru the bottom part of the arm ,is the hole in the arm supposed to be threaded mine is not
3 the instruction manual leaves a lot to be desired for a first time builder of a team magic car
4 need a set up board to set the front and rear track width 198/200mm b4 fine tuning the static set up for racing
any help is greatly appreciated
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:09 AM   #895
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Originally Posted by viperbill1963 View Post
well im about 3/4 of the way thru the build of my touring car and i have some questions
1 are the tires for this car off set
2 im having a problem getting the rear anti roll rod cap screw started thru the bottom part of the arm ,is the hole in the arm supposed to be threaded mine is not
3 the instruction manual leaves a lot to be desired for a first time builder of a team magic car
4 need a set up board to set the front and rear track width 198/200mm b4 fine tuning the static set up for racing
any help is greatly appreciated
Hey ,how are you, Bobby Watson here in Palm Bay fla. (1)The car is setup for 0 offset tires.
(2) They are self taping cap screws ,take your time an screw them in.
(3) Yes it does ,i have raced the car at this years Roar Nationals in Ohio the only TM09 at the event an the car was flawless.
(4)Setup board well be needed i will racing this weekend race #3 of our Forgass Series at Kraceway in Kissimee Sat & Sun.If need anymore imfo just let us know we will be glad to help.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:00 PM   #896
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Hey Guys...I'm used to the Serpent Centax clutch and in terms of shimming would normally shim between the thrust race and thrust race collar to set the clutch gap and then between the end of the clutch nut and inner bearing to remove the end play.

Have read the K-Factory piece which seems to suggest the opposite - ie setting the clutch gap by shimming between the clutch nut and inner bearing and then between the thrust race and thrust race collar to remove end play.

This is backwards to what I'm used to and not sure of the mechanics of the difference.

How are you guys approaching this..?

Thanks
I use mine just as K-Factory mentioned, never have probs. I also don't use any clutch weights, but thats for where I race also, with red spring and red pads.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:12 PM   #897
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Clutch gap is set with shimming between the thrust race and the collar. Endplay is adjusted with shimming between the clutch nut and the inner bearing.

If you think about how the clutch works it makes sense .
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:21 AM   #898
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Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
Clutch gap is set with shimming between the thrust race and the collar. Endplay is adjusted with shimming between the clutch nut and the inner bearing.

If you think about how the clutch works it makes sense .
Hmm... I get the principles.. dont quite get the method... Ultimately the Clutch will throw the shoe (Clutch GAP + END PLAY ) before fully engaged.

Please correct me if wrong.. and I probably am..

The ENDPLAY is the amount of gap required to let the clutch free spin when not engaged.

The CLUTCH GAP is there to allow for heat to expand and the aggressiveness of the throw as the clutch spring will have more resistance the further it throws.

h
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:31 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by blis View Post
Hmm... I get the principles.. dont quite get the method... Ultimately the Clutch will throw the shoe (Clutch GAP + END PLAY ) before fully engaged.

Please correct me if wrong.. and I probably am..

The ENDPLAY is the amount of gap required to let the clutch free spin when not engaged.

The CLUTCH GAP is there to allow for heat to expand and the aggressiveness of the throw as the clutch spring will have more resistance the further it throws.

h
That's correct, wat don't you understand?
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:13 AM   #900
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Originally Posted by blis View Post
Hmm... I get the principles.. dont quite get the method... Ultimately the Clutch will throw the shoe (Clutch GAP + END PLAY ) before fully engaged.

Please correct me if wrong.. and I probably am..

The ENDPLAY is the amount of gap required to let the clutch free spin when not engaged.

The CLUTCH GAP is there to allow for heat to expand and the aggressiveness of the throw as the clutch spring will have more resistance the further it throws.

h
Think of it this way:

Clutch gap is the distance the clutch shoe travels before engaging.
Endplay is the distance the clutch bell travels before engaging.

Let's forget about endplay and talk clutch gap for now. When you set the clutch gap, you take the inner bearing and the shims off and measure the up and down play the bell has. Since the shoe will be travelling outside as the engine revs, you are effectively measuring the distance the shoe will be moving before engagement.

Let's say you just set the value to 0.7mm. So, now you got both the clutch gap and the endplay at 0.7mm (Endplay is currently at 0.7mm since the bell has to move that amount).

Why not run the car like this? Well, if the bell has to travel 0.7mm outside for engagement, it will be slamming itself against the thrust bearing every time the clutch engages. As you know this isn't exactly healthy for the bearing. Ok, then why not set the value to something like 0.1mm in the first place? Sure, had we set the gap to something like 0.1mm, the bell only has to travel 0.1mm and won't prematurely wear out the bearing. But now you have a car that bogs severely since now the shoe also can't travel more than 0.1mm. Since the shoe can't gain enough angular momentum to transfer to the bell during the time it travels 0.1mm, the car bogs.

So what we want to do here is keep the clutch gap at 0.4-0.8mm so the car doesn't bog, while keeping the endplay value at <0.1mm so the bearing doesn't wear out.

Now you take the bell off and add the inner bearing & shims under the bell. Since you are moving only the bell outside, the clutch gap stays the same, while the distance the bell has to travel decreases. Ideally that distance should be <0.1mm.

Now you have a car that neither bogs nor eats bearings . If the car doesn't launch the way you want it to, try experimenting with the clutch gap but leave the endplay at <0.1mm. And yes every time you adjust the clutch gap, you have to re-adjust the endplay as well.

Did that make any sense at all? I don't even know what I just wrote..
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Last edited by PrimeAKF11; 11-04-2009 at 08:27 AM.
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