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Old 09-06-2009, 09:05 AM   #751
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Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
But aren't TM oils rated in cts? TM 50,000 feels quite thin compared to what 50,000WT would feel like.

I am using Losi 35wt shock oils all around on stock springs. I had used blue and turquoise TM springs front and back but thought those were a lil too stiff. I'll post my setup sheet so you guys can take a close look at it.
Sang, you are the man! lol Also as I suggested @ the track we should trying adjusting your clutch spring too. get it some more snap on the infield. The Picco Pipe might also work better on that engine rather than the Nova 2630.

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Old 09-07-2009, 02:04 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
But aren't TM oils rated in cts? TM 50,000 feels quite thin compared to what 50,000WT would feel like.

I am using Losi 35wt shock oils all around on stock springs. I had used blue and turquoise TM springs front and back but thought those were a lil too stiff. I'll post my setup sheet so you guys can take a close look at it.
I do not think TM 50K oil is any thinner than most brands. It just feels softer once inside the diff because the amount of oil that goes into G4RS 09 diffs is much less than that of Kyosho or Mugen.

Likewise, 120k Ofna feels a lot softer in my front G4RS 09 diff than I feels in the Kyosho I used to drive, and in both cases, oil came out of the very same bottle!

Would that be the case with what you are referring to ?

Last edited by gtrmx; 09-07-2009 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 09-07-2009, 03:46 PM   #753
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I see your point. I know this is going to sound strange but the front diff on my 09 feels about the same as how my RS 08 felt like with 120,000 wt. The rear diff does feel as if there's thinner fluid inside. Hmm... Maybe because I literally packed the front diff with oil when I built it.

Here's my setup from last Saturday. Could you please take a look?
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Old 09-07-2009, 03:59 PM   #754
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Default Back from the Nats

Hey everyone just got home ,back to the sunshine state, all i can say is the car was a dream to drive.Fast in an out of the corners top speed amazing bottomend power insane.The track was off the hook with traction.Finish 6th in my main, but overall the car surprized alot racers, not bad at all with being the only G4RS 09 at this event.I want to thank Machinaria for the best support ever, Anna your the best,guys broke some parts, email Anna had the parts at my hotel next day.Now if thats not support.Thanks to James B for the monstermotor ,Pete Pepe for sweet paint job,Kevin of TwisterTires, David Larry for the ride ,Uriah Murnan thanks man.T-Roy thanks for the pitwork man.To everyone i saw at the Nats have a safe trip home.
Best Regards
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P.s will be posting setup.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:04 PM   #755
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Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
I see your point. I know this is going to sound strange but the front diff on my 09 feels about the same as how my RS 08 felt like with 120,000 wt. The rear diff does feel as if there's thinner fluid inside. Hmm... Maybe because I literally packed the front diff with oil when I built it.

Here's my setup from last Saturday. Could you please take a look?
Change you rear diff to 60,000 run 40/42 this will give what you are looking for.You need to free up the rear alittle.Hope this helps.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:19 PM   #756
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Sang,
How long since you have cleaned and replaced the diff fluid? I generally do it every 2-3 weeks depending on how much I run. espically with the smaller diffs.

You could try to decrese your rear toe- Less understeer
Less caster(more vertical) More steering @ corner entry
Lower front droop- Less inital on throttle understeer
lower rear dropp- increased steering in slow corners
Both better on bumpy tracks, which ours is very bummpy
Stiffen the front sway bar some- better off power steering @ corner entry
Also your ride height is a little low. I would not be surprised if the front could be touching in some harder corners of the track.
Try one thing @ a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
I see your point. I know this is going to sound strange but the front diff on my 09 feels about the same as how my RS 08 felt like with 120,000 wt. The rear diff does feel as if there's thinner fluid inside. Hmm... Maybe because I literally packed the front diff with oil when I built it.

Here's my setup from last Saturday. Could you please take a look?
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:21 PM   #757
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Originally Posted by impalabob64 View Post
Change you rear diff to 60,000 run 40/42 this will give what you are looking for.You need to free up the rear alittle.Hope this helps.


40/42 is like ice on our track. most run 35 and 37s with the 40 coming into play @ times on a high traction day.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:41 PM   #758
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Default Sedan Nationals setup

Track Condition
Surface-Smooth
Size-Med
Traction-High
Front Sus
Track Width-197
Anti-Roll Bar-0
Diff.Fluid 300,000Hudy
Toe Angle-2.5 out
Camber 2.5l -2.5R
Ride Height -5mm
Droop-2.0mm
Caster-3.0mm
Tire -Twister 40 shore 57.5mm
Shocks(Evolva fronts)
oil-500 kyosho
piston-2hole
Spring-Kit
Ackermann-A
Gear Ratio
16/62
22/56
Clutch -Push Type
Clutch Spring-Orion
Clutch Shoe-X-Ray Yellow
Engine -Picco Evo3
Pipe & Header -Sirio 2611
Rear Suspension
Track Width 200 mm
Anti-Roll bar-2.2mm
Diff Fluid -Mixture 1/4 500,000 mixed with 80,000 (Very High Grip)
Toe Angle-1.0
Camber -4.5 L ,4.0 R
Ride Height -5.5mm
Tires Twister 42 shore 59.5
Shocks- (Evolva Rears)
Oils- 600 Kyosho
Piston -2holes
Springs-Kit
Shocks layed all the way down (front an rear)
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:00 PM   #759
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Yea sang listen to g mac thats exactly what i was going to tell you also 4 degrees of camber in the rear sounds a little intense. A lot of us run like 1.0 to 2.0 i once did my camber before i did ride hieght not paying much attention to it and my camber ended up being 3.5 some how and i had to use the brakes on the sweeper or it would push into that big painted area because it felt like i had no steering and less toe should help too. Is racing sunday? If it is i might stop by and i can help if you need anything. Also i enjoyrd your nice backflip going down the straight in the third round
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:28 PM   #760
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Originally Posted by impalabob64 View Post
Hey everyone just got home ,back to the sunshine state, all i can say is the car was a dream to drive.Fast in an out of the corners top speed amazing bottomend power insane.The track was off the hook with traction.Finish 6th in my main, but overall the car surprized alot racers, not bad at all with being the only G4RS 09 at this event.I want to thank Machinaria for the best support ever, Anna your the best,guys broke some parts, email Anna had the parts at my hotel next day.Now if thats not support.Thanks to James B for the monstermotor ,Pete Pepe for sweet paint job,Kevin of TwisterTires, David Larry for the ride ,Uriah Murnan thanks man.T-Roy thanks for the pitwork man.To everyone i saw at the Nats have a safe trip home.
Best Regards
Bobby Watson (TeamMachinaria):sneaky.
P.s will be posting setup.
Good job Bobby
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:43 PM   #761
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Originally Posted by impalabob64 View Post
Hey everyone just got home ,back to the sunshine state, all i can say is the car was a dream to drive.Fast in an out of the corners top speed amazing bottomend power insane.The track was off the hook with traction.Finish 6th in my main, but overall the car surprized alot racers, not bad at all with being the only G4RS 09 at this event.I want to thank Machinaria for the best support ever, Anna your the best,guys broke some parts, email Anna had the parts at my hotel next day.Now if thats not support.Thanks to James B for the monstermotor ,Pete Pepe for sweet paint job,Kevin of TwisterTires, David Larry for the ride ,Uriah Murnan thanks man.T-Roy thanks for the pitwork man.To everyone i saw at the Nats have a safe trip home.
Best Regards
Bobby Watson (TeamMachinaria):sneaky.
P.s will be posting setup.


Nothing better than a happy driver after a race weekend!!

Great to hear you enjoyed it! Thanks for posting your setup and congratulations!!
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:53 PM   #762
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Default Pics

Here is the car in action
Attached Thumbnails
Team Magic G4RS 2009-dsc_0162.jpg   Team Magic G4RS 2009-dsc_0166.jpg   Team Magic G4RS 2009-dsc_0169.jpg  
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Old 09-07-2009, 06:14 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by PrimeAKF11 View Post
I see your point. I know this is going to sound strange but the front diff on my 09 feels about the same as how my RS 08 felt like with 120,000 wt. The rear diff does feel as if there's thinner fluid inside. Hmm... Maybe because I literally packed the front diff with oil when I built it.

Here's my setup from last Saturday. Could you please take a look?
As for your diff feeling the same with the older car, I am guessing your diff in the RS 08 was not really packed with oil, because I am certain it should have felt a lot stiffer. You need to leave the oil resting for a few hours so it lets all air bubbles out. If you trap air then you will effectively feel the oil is softer than it should be.

I think I understand what your car feels like. Does it also suffer oversteering on power at corner exits? Or is it only off power at corner entry?

If and only if you suffered general lack of traction then keep reading. Otherwise, disregard my comments below. If you had plenty of rear traction then the posts above should be very helpful.



I had mentioned using a thinner shock oil and stiffer springs but I did not know where you were coming from before mentioning your losi 35. I think that would be too soft for certain tracks, already.

Last time I drove the car with Losi 30. Now I am thinking it was not the right combo, along with the springs I was using, because the car felt like driving on ice! Unfortunately for me at that last race, I could only arrive on Sunday for the last qualifying rounds and the mains. One thing I would have liked trying is a thicker oil and softer springs but had no time to try. This is totally at the opposite end compared to what I had mentioned before, but I think I went too far in the first place.

Is that a track you could easily go back to?

Would you help me by trying say... Losi 60, 80?? Perhaps kit springs or Kyosho light blue? I say that would help me, because as crazy as this may sound, that is what I would have liked trying at the last race. The track I am talking about is four hours away from town and it is usually very very dusty. It cleans up a little during races and it is therefore difficult to reproduce the conditions for me to try.

Once you have a feel for the far ends of oils and springs then start moving towards the middle on either one. Then you will identify where to go next. Using both very hard springs and very thick oils would not work, because the track is bumpy and it does not have high traction.

Despite the track being bumpy, as long as you use soft springs to go with the thick oil the car will not bounce around.

Could you do that for me?

Thanks!
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Old 09-07-2009, 06:38 PM   #764
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haha thanks beta bob!
Sang, just remeber try one thing @ a time and document everything ya do so ya don't get lost on where your setup is. haha

Now I just need to follow my own advice and make some changes to the 733. eventhough with a base stock setup I picked up an easy lap compared to my MTX4-R and didn't have to drive as hard to achive it.

Bob- there is racing this sunday. Swing on by!


Quote:
Originally Posted by beta bob View Post
Yea sang listen to g mac thats exactly what i was going to tell you also 4 degrees of camber in the rear sounds a little intense. A lot of us run like 1.0 to 2.0 i once did my camber before i did ride hieght not paying much attention to it and my camber ended up being 3.5 some how and i had to use the brakes on the sweeper or it would push into that big painted area because it felt like i had no steering and less toe should help too. Is racing sunday? If it is i might stop by and i can help if you need anything. Also i enjoyrd your nice backflip going down the straight in the third round
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:37 PM   #765
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Wow, I didn't expect so many would try to help out . Thanks everyone!!!

gtrmx- EXACTLY! My car was suffering both from off throttle understeer and on throttle oversteer. Aside from not being able to turn in early, I pretty much couldn't apply any throttle unless the car was pointing straight.

I go to that track every weekend so I'll be able to experiment with your advises. After this weekend I won't be able to race until October but there is still enough time to try out other setups.

The reason I went so soft on the shock oil was because of this particular spot at the back straight. There's a series of subtle undulations and if the car isn't damped softly the bumps will bounce the front end enough for the air to get under the car (keep in mind at this point the car is traveling close to 50 mph and still accelerating). When that happens the whole car will lift off nose first like an airplane, flip mid air and crash badly. I learned it the hard way after pulling the same stunt three times and breaking a lot of stuff. It's quite a sight; it doesn't look like the car is jumping off a ramp like most would imagine but rather like an airplane taking off slowly. I wish I have my car doing that on tape.


impalabob64- I forgot to mention that while I was suffering from lack of steering, the car didn't seem to have much grip at the same time. Should I try lower shore tires instead in this case?


Gmac and Miles- Thanks for the tips! I still don't have a firm grasp on the concept of droop and how it affects the car. I know the rear camber looks a bit excessive but anything other than that my car will cone the rear tires. I'm thinking maybe I'm using too soft of springs so the car is rolling excessively. I'll be there this Sunday and hope to see you guys.

And I do agree that there is a definite performance difference between the newest chassis and those a generation older. When I switched from my old RS 08 to the current car, I shaved off .4 seconds from my previous best lap time with the new car in stock setup. That 733 of yours also definitely looked faster than the Mugen.

Miles, I think now I know what you were talking about when you complained about lack of power some time ago. With my new evo4 I picked up a lot of excess power over my worn out TZ, and now I can pull on most everyone on the straight save perhaps Dorian and Gmac. Funny thing is, when I was practicing, a fellow racer who was on the stand with me at the time pointed out that my lines were all over the place (I had just put on a high grip clutch shoe so I still wasn't used to the power delivery). I acknowledged that and we began uh, a friendly grudge race . Guess what happened... I still owned him. He was definitely driving a much cleaner line but every time there was anything that resembled a straight (remember every spot that connects an apex to an apex is essentially a straight section) I distanced him. Let's not even mention the back stretch where I was putting at least 30ft lead on him. After like 4 laps I almost had a half lap on him and then he pulled into the pit. I don't think he was too happy .
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