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Old 12-23-2003, 08:21 AM   #16
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Rubber for winter. Foams for summer. In the UK anywayz

Cheers
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Old 12-23-2003, 11:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Profoxcg
That is the reason why I am so shocked people use foams. I will look into rubber tires.
I am sorry to say that you guys are totally off. If we keep the driver as the same factor and let's have your average track, there is no way the rubber shod car will kick the foam shod car. Unless the track is damp.

If your glorification of rubbers are really that true then let's see the top drivers competing on rubbers and not foams. Are rubber tires the choice of any of the top nitro drivers? Think ..

The analogy for 1:1 not using foam is nuts.
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Old 12-23-2003, 11:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by ziggy12345
Rubber for winter. Foams for summer. In the UK anywayz

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Why rubber for winter? Do foams perform that bad in the cold?
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Old 12-23-2003, 11:30 AM   #19
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The track never dries up in the winter and only a small amount of damp will effect the foams
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Old 12-23-2003, 11:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by ziggy12345
The track never dries up in the winter and only a small amount of damp will effect the foams
aaaaah ... its sunny here all year round unless its pouring, when that happens we bring out our rc boats!!!
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Old 12-23-2003, 01:50 PM   #21
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Originally quoted by TIANcI:
I am sorry to say that you guys are totally off. If we keep the driver as the same factor and let's have your average track, there is no way the rubber shod car will kick the foam shod car. Unless the track is damp.
If your glorification of rubbers are really that true then let's see the top drivers competing on rubbers and not foams. Are rubber tires the choice of any of the top nitro drivers? Think ..
The analogy for 1:1 not using foam is nuts.

ANSWER:
Hey!! Hey!!! TiancI, excuse me, hold your horses, nobody is "off" or "nuts" around here, show some respect to others opinions.

Top drivers, which are the least of this hobby, might have the wallet or sponsorship that not all majority mortals have.
Who said you can't have top races with top or not drivers. It is a question of rules and regulations and economies in some parts of the world that maybe are not as lucky as you to have a permanent and perfect track, and many parts of the world run both classes.
I would like to see all of the "top" drivers you seem to know competing on the same set of rubbers and see how good they really are, and not who has the latest foam that nobody gets, and the lathe, and the knowledge to set up a foam car.
Plus I insist that for your average majority drivers it is simpler and cheaper to race on rubbers than it is on foams, and i can prove it dollar over dollar, FOAMS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE.
If by your comments, then all of the touring electric class top drivers are "off" or nuts"
It is a question of what is best for your reality, nobody has said that rubber or foam is best than the other.

AFM
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:00 PM   #22
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Some of us that race on a concrete surface can only use rubber tires, if you use foams on a concrete surface....it would wear down before you completed 5 minutes running nitro. Most of the large organized races are on asphalt where we do race foams. So I think that it is the surface preparation that drives choices of foams vs rubbers. Some of us even race rubber on old asphalt surfaces around town. There should be no argument in this thread.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by tIANcI
I am sorry to say that you guys are totally off. If we keep the driver as the same factor and let's have your average track, there is no way the rubber shod car will kick the foam shod car. Unless the track is damp.

If your glorification of rubbers are really that true then let's see the top drivers competing on rubbers and not foams. Are rubber tires the choice of any of the top nitro drivers? Think ..

The analogy for 1:1 not using foam is nuts.

like i said before, one of the top drivers at my track races in both mod(foam tires, 5 port turbo engine) and stock(rubber tires, 3 port non-turbo engine) class

yet he can often pull in the same lap times with his stock car compared to his mod car

so it really is mostly about the driver


and 2 years ago at our chapionship race
a mugen driver(i wont disclose) ran in our mod class with rubber tires and a 3 port non-turbo motor and he still laped everyone at least 3 times in the A-main

so rubber tires can be just as good foam tires
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Old 12-23-2003, 06:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by afm
Originally quoted by TIANcI:
I am sorry to say that you guys are totally off. If we keep the driver as the same factor and let's have your average track, there is no way the rubber shod car will kick the foam shod car. Unless the track is damp.
If your glorification of rubbers are really that true then let's see the top drivers competing on rubbers and not foams. Are rubber tires the choice of any of the top nitro drivers? Think ..
The analogy for 1:1 not using foam is nuts.

ANSWER:
Hey!! Hey!!! TiancI, excuse me, hold your horses, nobody is "off" or "nuts" around here, show some respect to others opinions.

Top drivers, which are the least of this hobby, might have the wallet or sponsorship that not all majority mortals have.
Who said you can't have top races with top or not drivers. It is a question of rules and regulations and economies in some parts of the world that maybe are not as lucky as you to have a permanent and perfect track, and many parts of the world run both classes.
I would like to see all of the "top" drivers you seem to know competing on the same set of rubbers and see how good they really are, and not who has the latest foam that nobody gets, and the lathe, and the knowledge to set up a foam car.
Plus I insist that for your average majority drivers it is simpler and cheaper to race on rubbers than it is on foams, and i can prove it dollar over dollar, FOAMS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE.
If by your comments, then all of the touring electric class top drivers are "off" or nuts"
It is a question of what is best for your reality, nobody has said that rubber or foam is best than the other.

AFM
AFM, you got it all so wrong. Firstly, we area talking NITRO here not EP. It is about performance and not the size of your wallet. What was said earlier was that RUBBER can trash FOAM. It was in that context, you are making it as if I am just some rick kid whose father owns FAST TIRES. Its not that dude.

I believe people like Barry, Pavidis, Cyrul, Masami and all are using FOAMS for nitro and they are also EP racers! So, they are that good.

Now for your information in Malaysia its about 95% of all GP cars are on foams and to a certain extent it is cheaper to run foams. The price of a full set of rubbers cost about 20% more than 3 pairs of foams.
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Old 12-23-2003, 06:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by me43
like i said before, one of the top drivers at my track races in both mod(foam tires, 5 port turbo engine) and stock(rubber tires, 3 port non-turbo engine) class

yet he can often pull in the same lap times with his stock car compared to his mod car

so it really is mostly about the driver


and 2 years ago at our chapionship race
a mugen driver(i wont disclose) ran in our mod class with rubber tires and a 3 port non-turbo motor and he still laped everyone at least 3 times in the A-main

so rubber tires can be just as good foam tires
That guy is one hell of a driver and he is just a tease, probably driving slower on FOAMs so that you all are not disheartened! LoL
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Old 12-23-2003, 07:21 PM   #26
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TIANcI, I didn't get any thing wrong, I am not questioning your opinions, what I question is your fast qualification of people as being "off" or "nuts" without knowing them.
And of course I know we are talking Nitro, and yes, top performance has to do with the size of your wallet after a certain point.
As a I said before it is a question of reality and regulations on were you race.
And for your information here in Peru 100% of drivers run on rubbers, because Foams don't work on our track, period. so we have to get the maximun performance from our reality.
Because our Association imports the spec rubbers we run directly from the factory without profit, our sets costs 50% cheaper than Foams, period.
I never implied that Rubber can trash foams or viceversa, i will repeat as some others have said to, It all depends on who and were you race.
To finish this absurd argument, let people race with whatever suits them and try to give them the best advice on what they are asking, that is how i got into this thread if you check from the start, somebody asked for help on rubbers, i gave him my opinions based on my 6 years running on rubbers.
Also remember your own words:
"It is nice to be important but it is more important to be nice"
ĦĦĦMERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR"
AFM



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It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice ...
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Old 12-23-2003, 07:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by afm
TIANcI, I didn't get any thing wrong, I am not questioning your opinions, what I question is your fast qualification of people as being "off" or "nuts" without knowing them.
And of course I know we are talking Nitro, and yes, top performance has to do with the size of your wallet after a certain point.
As a I said before it is a question of reality and regulations on were you race.
And for your information here in Peru 100% of drivers run on rubbers, because Foams don't work on our track, period. so we have to get the maximun performance from our reality.
Because our Association imports the spec rubbers we run directly from the factory without profit, our sets costs 50% cheaper than Foams, period.
I never implied that Rubber can trash foams or viceversa, i will repeat as some others have said to, It all depends on who and were you race.
To finish this absurd argument, let people race with whatever suits them and try to give them the best advice on what they are asking, that is how i got into this thread if you check from the start, somebody asked for help on rubbers, i gave him my opinions based on my 6 years running on rubbers.
Also remember your own words:
"It is nice to be important but it is more important to be nice"
ĦĦĦMERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR"
AFM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice ...
Query ... why is rubber better for your tracks? In Malaysia most tracks chew up tires (maybe we drive too hard!!!) and it gets really hot on track at times. Rubbers will not perform all that well.

I must send some EP guys to Peru to buy tires then!!!
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Old 12-23-2003, 07:53 PM   #28
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TIANcI

Our track in Lima is a semipermanent track inside the parking lot of the horse track, so it is very dusty all the time, we blow the track the day of the race and it gets better, but also the quality of the asphalt is very coarse, so traction is allways mid to low.
Track temperatures range from 30 to 60°C between winter and summer, and Lima in general is a very humid and dusty city( it rarely rains, mostly it's just mist in winter)
Now, it so happens that EP rubbers don't work on Nitro cars because they are 22 to 24mm wide and they het up fast with the high power developed by Nitro cars, so there are manufacturers that produce special Rubber tires for nitro cars. There are 26mm, 28mm and 30mm rubbers with special capped and factory glued process. BSR RACING in the USA makes those 28 and 30mm rubbers because they use them to race concrete oval nascar type races in the south, and they can be used on Touring nitro cars with exelent performance and duration, they are temperature rated tires. Then there is PMT TIRES from Italy that makes special 26mm Nitro rubber tires that work also fine and are built on hardness compound ratings like the foams, these are the tires we are using with exelent performance and bets of all price. A set of any pair mounted and factory assembled cost us racers 13.00 USD, and will last you Saturday practice, Qualifying (F1 style) and 30 minutes of racing and you still have tires for some more paractice for next race, or for example we had a 1 hour race this past Sunday and my ser of tires lasted perfectly and still are usable for some practice.
Tell your EP friends to contact www.pmt-tyres.it and import directly from them, a pair of tires cost 6.80 euros ex-works, now you figure out how much it would them cost landed in Manila.
I hope this clears the issue of why we use rubbers, and you just found out that there are special nitro rubbers.
Your friend AFM
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Old 12-23-2003, 08:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by afm
TIANcI

Our track in Lima is a semipermanent track inside the parking lot of the horse track, so it is very dusty all the time, we blow the track the day of the race and it gets better, but also the quality of the asphalt is very coarse, so traction is allways mid to low.
Track temperatures range from 30 to 60°C between winter and summer, and Lima in general is a very humid and dusty city( it rarely rains, mostly it's just mist in winter)
Now, it so happens that EP rubbers don't work on Nitro cars because they are 22 to 24mm wide and they het up fast with the high power developed by Nitro cars, so there are manufacturers that produce special Rubber tires for nitro cars. There are 26mm, 28mm and 30mm rubbers with special capped and factory glued process. BSR RACING in the USA makes those 28 and 30mm rubbers because they use them to race concrete oval nascar type races in the south, and they can be used on Touring nitro cars with exelent performance and duration, they are temperature rated tires. Then there is PMT TIRES from Italy that makes special 26mm Nitro rubber tires that work also fine and are built on hardness compound ratings like the foams, these are the tires we are using with exelent performance and bets of all price. A set of any pair mounted and factory assembled cost us racers 13.00 USD, and will last you Saturday practice, Qualifying (F1 style) and 30 minutes of racing and you still have tires for some more paractice for next race, or for example we had a 1 hour race this past Sunday and my ser of tires lasted perfectly and still are usable for some practice.
Tell your EP friends to contact www.pmt-tyres.it and import directly from them, a pair of tires cost 6.80 euros ex-works, now you figure out how much it would them cost landed in Manila.
I hope this clears the issue of why we use rubbers, and you just found out that there are special nitro rubbers.
Your friend AFM
Its Malaysia not Manila ... hehehe ... interesting that your rubbers can last this long. I am curious to try them, its expensive alright but I am curious. Maybe I should go to Lima, I hear its a lovely place.
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Old 12-23-2003, 08:38 PM   #30
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tianci,

afm gave some very reasonable explanations of rubber tires. his preference to rubber tires over foam did not sound like he was bashing foam, only that he prefered rubber tires.

afm,

actually the reason why i like foam over rubber is that it rubber tire performance seems to lack slightly towards the end of the tire and also the variable of having to experiment with different inserts doesnt attract me much. we can get mounted rubber tires now but it seems that mounted foam tires are easier to get.
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