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Old 12-23-2003, 12:13 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbmon
I use the grey springs , but i use the rear springs for the front and back, when the foams wear down you still have plenty more thread to go down on this way.
Wouldn't the spring setting be different since the front and rear springs of the same colour is of different rating? More coils versus less coils?
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Old 12-23-2003, 12:32 AM   #32
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I don't think so
the springs are listed by color and numarically sp?
1.6,1.7,etc...
the spring rate is still the same
it still takes x amount of weight to make the spring compess by Y amount
this is how i understand it , i could be wrong
also there are other ways to vary spring rates, like guage of the wire making the spring and spacing of the coils can both effect spring rate right.?
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Old 12-23-2003, 12:34 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbmon
the greys seem to work pretty good for me at the REALLY
big track i run at , this track has a 265ft back straight and lanes are like atleast 12 foot wide around the whole track, the track is ideal for 1/8 scale but we have alot of fun on it with the nitro sedans. This is a track where powerful motors and lots of gearing really help. I use the grey springs , but i use the rear springs for the front and back, when the foams wear down you still have plenty more thread to go down on this way.
it doesnt matter what color spring you actually use as long as you feel good about your setting. some times color code is for foolproof !
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Old 12-23-2003, 12:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbmon
I don't think so
the springs are listed by color and numarically sp?
1.6,1.7,etc...
the spring rate is still the same
Not trying to say that it is wrong to use rear springs in front but just to make you realise that even though they are the same colour and spring diameter, the number of coils makes the spring tension different. More coils, softer the spring. Less coils, the spring becomes harder.
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Old 12-23-2003, 01:09 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbmon
I don't think so
the springs are listed by color and numarically sp?
1.6,1.7,etc...
the spring rate is still the same
it still takes x amount of weight to make the spring compess by Y amount
this is how i understand it , i could be wrong
also there are other ways to vary spring rates, like guage of the wire making the spring and spacing of the coils can both effect spring rate right.?
post your question about your MTX3 at MTX3 thread. i am sure the mugen racers are more then happy to help you.
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:38 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by front1wayFreak
Thanks Taylor-Racing! Sorry took me a while to reply, pretty busy with christmas shopping

So droop setup correctly with the suspension on or off the car? I have 2 different result with/without the suspension. On my R40, i have different amount of turns between right and left upfront in order to get the same number. Is this normal or something binding in the suspension arms?
Sorry, dunno about the R40 particularly, but the principals are the same.
If you're getting different settings as you describe, I suspect the shocks may be too short or the bar is tweaked or something like that.

Many will say that you should disconnect the shocks and bars to set the droop. The reason is that you are able to measure only the droop without, for instance, a slightly tweaked bar influencing the setting.

I do this only when initially building the car, then add the shocks and then the bars. I like to be very accurate at this stage. This way you systematically ensure that there is no induced droop (tweak) caused by the bars or shocks. It also enables you to ensure there is going to be sufficient shock travel for any combination of tyre diameter and ride height you might encounter.

Why? Because at the track, when you adjust the droop screws, you need to be confident that the shocks/bars are not going to induce some tweak.

BTW, how would you compare the NS12S5 and the Max.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:02 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbmon
the greys seem to work pretty good for me at the REALLY
big track i run at , this track has a 265ft back straight and lanes are like atleast 12 foot wide around the whole track, the track is ideal for 1/8 scale but we have alot of fun on it with the nitro sedans. This is a track where powerful motors and lots of gearing really help. I use the grey springs , but i use the rear springs for the front and back, when the foams wear down you still have plenty more thread to go down on this way.
I get what you mean about using the longer springs. I built my shocks with the shock shaft measured at a certain lenght so I do not have that much of a problem with the shorter front springs even with a lot of tire wear.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:06 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Wouldn't the spring setting be different since the front and rear springs of the same colour is of different rating? More coils versus less coils?
I believe the number of coils is not the issue, it is the number of coils per inch or whatever you use as a measurement. Mugen has the new springs where the diameter of the spring is the same but the number of coils are not. Hence, as long as the 'distance' between coils are the same the spring rating is about the same.

I think they should just rate springs according to poundage like the NTC3! Easier for referrence.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Not trying to say that it is wrong to use rear springs in front but just to make you realise that even though they are the same colour and spring diameter, the number of coils makes the spring tension different. More coils, softer the spring. Less coils, the spring becomes harder.
That is not completely correct. If you have a long spring with ten coils and a half as lon spring with five coils the spring is the same ratio.

If you use more coils in a same length spring it gets softer.
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:42 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
That is not completely correct. If you have a long spring with ten coils and a half as lon spring with five coils the spring is the same ratio.

If you use more coils in a same length spring it gets softer.
Guess someone did not do physics in school, heheheee ...
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Old 12-23-2003, 03:46 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
That is not completely correct. If you have a long spring with ten coils and a half as lon spring with five coils the spring is the same ratio.

If you use more coils in a same length spring it gets softer.
Julius, need to ask you something. Might need a long answer but it would clear something up for me.

Some people mentioned that they will adjust the droop to compensate for tire wear. Is that necessary? I mean the droop setting is a factor in the whole set up, is it not kept at a constant unlike adjusting shock collar to get the correct ride height?

Also the droop is measured off the hub/knuckle so why does tire wear become a factor?

Of course in a race you cannot make such adjustment but I cannot understand why you need to adjust the droop to compensate for tire wear.
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Old 12-23-2003, 04:14 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
That is not completely correct. If you have a long spring with ten coils and a half as lon spring with five coils the spring is the same ratio.

If you use more coils in a same length spring it gets softer.
No, the variables that influence spring rate are:
Wire thickness.
Outside diameter of spring.
Number of active coils.
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Old 12-23-2003, 04:28 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by tIANcI
Julius, need to ask you something. Might need a long answer but it would clear something up for me.

Some people mentioned that they will adjust the droop to compensate for tire wear. Is that necessary? I mean the droop setting is a factor in the whole set up, is it not kept at a constant unlike adjusting shock collar to get the correct ride height?

Also the droop is measured off the hub/knuckle so why does tire wear become a factor?

Of course in a race you cannot make such adjustment but I cannot understand why you need to adjust the droop to compensate for tire wear.
Sorry to but in here . . .

What happens is that as the tyres wear, the ride height becomes lower, yeah?
To compensate, we raise the chassis to maintain the ride height - by winding down the shock collars.
By winding down on those shock collars, we have just limited the droop, therefore the droop needs to be re-set.
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Old 12-23-2003, 04:34 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
Sorry to but in here . . .

What happens is that as the tyres wear, the ride height becomes lower, yeah?
To compensate, we raise the chassis to maintain the ride height - by winding down the shock collars.
By winding down on those shock collars, we have just limited the droop, therefore the droop needs to be re-set.
Aaaaaaah ... true true ... I get it. Anyways, that is why I don't adjust my ride height. I just set it for fresh tires and run them till its worn, just like what would happen in a race. Of course, it might be because I am lazy ...
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Old 12-23-2003, 04:46 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by tIANcI
Aaaaaaah ... true true ... I get it. Anyways, that is why I don't adjust my ride height. I just set it for fresh tires and run them till its worn, just like what would happen in a race. Of course, it might be because I am lazy ...
No, I like that strategy too . . and not ONLY because I'm lazy.
For a day's racing, I like to have enough tyres of the same/similar diameter so that I can just rotate/change them and maintain the original set-up. This means the car should be relateively consistant from heat to heat with adjustments made for improvement purposes, not just to compensate for something.
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