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Old 06-23-2009, 04:46 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by clmbia45 View Post
IMO we need to stay focused on the problems to arrive at a coherent solution.
1. We need more participation, not less. Money is the problem.
2. We do not increase participation by telling people they can't come.
5. The members of this Organization are aging and dropping out. Recruitment is the key to long term success. Restricting access to events will not encourage people to join.
jack
I have to second these points. It doesn't make much sense to me why if participation was low in previous years, anyone would restrict access for future races. I'll admit i haven't been following this thread day by day, but at first glance, it just doesn't seem logical. Maybe there's a rational explination, i don't know. I was going to try to get on the waiting list, but with the hassle that would bring (request/unrequest vacation days, book/unbook hotel, etc.), i'll pass...maybe next year. I'll save the resources this year for the I95 Showdown at 301.

Would've been nice to go, but...well, whatever.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:04 PM   #362
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I have to second these points. It doesn't make much sense to me why if participation was low in previous years, anyone would restrict access for future races. I'll admit i haven't been following this thread day by day, but at first glance, it just doesn't seem logical. Maybe there's a rational explination, i don't know. I was going to try to get on the waiting list, but with the hassle that would bring (request/unrequest vacation days, book/unbook hotel, etc.), i'll pass...maybe next year. I'll save the resources this year for the I95 Showdown at 301.

Would've been nice to go, but...well, whatever.
It's like when the bouncer makes you wait at the door to a club for 10 minutes and then when you get inside, you are the 8th person there but you were really excited before you got in.

I agree though, limiting the race with the new race structure is kind of confusing to me as well. Racing starts on thursday and it is limited to 20 heats so each round should be a max of 3 hours even with 8-9 minutes per race leaving us 4-5 rounds and some mains on saturday and higher mains on sunday.. Especially on a USA worlds qualifier year it hurts even more although I will admit I signed up the 2nd day because I thought something like this could happen and ROAR pre-warned everyone that it would be tight.

I have been to much less organized events than a national should be and have witnessed 40+ heats in 3 days although that was electric with triple a-mains instead of single hour mains but there were 5 classes with triple mains and time between.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:37 PM   #363
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It's like when the bouncer makes you wait at the door to a club for 10 minutes and then when you get inside, you are the 8th person there but you were really excited before you got in.
For starters Brian, if I had to wait, I just went someplace else. Probably why I'm not really stressed about this. BUT, I get your point.

I read thru most of this thread and I still don't understand the decision. While I get their reasoning and thought process, combining them for the reasons stated, I'll have to disagree. Also, to not just disagree without providing a solution, I'll list my thoughts on the subject.

1. The list posted from previous races showed that participation was high when the races were not combined. One thing that was left out that list of statistics was location and dates. These are important because as someone stated, Texas in August...I'll pass.

2. I don't know how it works, but if the venue can't handle the potential high number of racers, then they probably shouldn't get the race. I'm all for supporting the tracks, but this hobby is about the racers. If you can't host both and the "financials" require them to be combined, someone else gets the bid.

3. With that said about it being about the racers, I totally disagree with anyone that says you need to qualify up. I know some of you make a living off of this and that's all fine, but without the average joe showing up at your big event, watchng you race, aspiring to "be there", asking you questions, etc...you're not going to make much of a living much longer. I think we sometimes forget, this is a hobby. This is not NASCAR, Formula 1, or any other spectators sport. We the racers are also the spectators, so if you exclude Joe Wallrider from the big events, you're going to lose a lot of people. Not to mention, if Joe don't come to big races where the sponsored guys are, how is he going to meet Drew E. & Ralph B. and get help breaking in a motor, fix a clutch with Diatta C., or get a setup sheet from Paul L., (yeah, XRAY BABY!!!) learn, and get better?

4. As far as ROAR goes with planning events, maybe taking entry fees a few months in advance and that will secure how many people you can expect. Then plan where the event will be held based on how many checks (non-refundable unless it's a life or death situation (MAYBE)) you've recieved.

Just my thoughts...oh, and not around holidays...seriously...you're asking for it.

By the way, I am not Joe Wallrider, but I know him.
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:49 PM   #364
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Which track, Toledo? Yes there is AT&T 3G coverage at almost full strength on my phone in Toledo. So the coverage is good.
cool! if I am not working with the car I can play with my Iphone jajaja...
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:01 PM   #365
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I have been 2 quite a few raceces & the pros have been in there own quals I haven't seen any novices in there heats I could be wrong
Sorry but I have... it has been me... I'm not a A main driver... I do not like when the pros are in the same heat as me... Not because I do not like them, because I would feel really bad if I hold them up... Just ask Mr. Fisher about the GLC last year....

I was to the GLC last year, made the C main (position 1), made the bump up to the B main, and was WAY out of my league, I pulled it off at the 5 mins mark, because I was "in the way".... I know not everyone has the same respect for better drivers, but I do...

But that is not my issue, it is what that nationals stand for and by allowing "anyone" in the national, you are discounting what a national is all about.

As far as a M main, no problem, as long as everyone has "learned" the basics, no problem then..... To insure that you have done this, you need to run the local level events before you go to the nationals....
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:05 PM   #366
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I have to second these points. It doesn't make much sense to me why if participation was low in previous years, anyone would restrict access for future races. I'll admit i haven't been following this thread day by day, but at first glance, it just doesn't seem logical. Maybe there's a rational explination, i don't know. I was going to try to get on the waiting list, but with the hassle that would bring (request/unrequest vacation days, book/unbook hotel, etc.), i'll pass...maybe next year. I'll save the resources this year for the I95 Showdown at 301.

Would've been nice to go, but...well, whatever.
No one has suggested with limited entry, you just need to qualify for the national... by supporting the local tracks and ROAR.... so how is that "limiting" people from the national?
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:08 PM   #367
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List has been removed. Will be posted again at a later time.

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Old 06-23-2009, 08:52 PM   #368
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No one has suggested with limited entry, you just need to qualify for the national... by supporting the local tracks and ROAR.... so how is that "limiting" people from the national?
Let's assume these rules are in place...

So no one in Region 2 this year that couldn't make it to another regions race can race in the nationals this year. Thanks for your ROAR membership fees, see you next year. When is Region 2's regionals anyway?

The nationals haven't lost value because the average Joe can race there. The fast guys will reshuffle to each other anyway, and that's if they are not put together from the start.
The nationals and the hobby will lose value if only the fast guys can race in the big races.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:42 PM   #369
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Let's assume these rules are in place...

So no one in Region 2 this year that couldn't make it to another regions race can race in the nationals this year. Thanks for your ROAR membership fees, see you next year. When is Region 2's regionals anyway?

The nationals haven't lost value because the average Joe can race there. The fast guys will reshuffle to each other anyway, and that's if they are not put together from the start.
The nationals and the hobby will lose value if only the fast guys can race in the big races.
If there is no region race, why not allow for the region director to take resumes? If you don't even have enough support for a regional that should not be too great of a burden.

I also can't see why the top finishers getting first crack at entries is a bad idea. If you let the "non-qualifiers" in after a certain date, the net result is the same, other than a situation where the race actually sells out to people who qualified.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:48 PM   #370
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Let's assume these rules are in place...

So no one in Region 2 this year that couldn't make it to another regions race can race in the nationals this year. Thanks for your ROAR membership fees, see you next year. When is Region 2's regionals anyway?

The nationals haven't lost value because the average Joe can race there. The fast guys will reshuffle to each other anyway, and that's if they are not put together from the start.
The nationals and the hobby will lose value if only the fast guys can race in the big races.
Maybe the reason you do not have any regional races or local ROAR races (I did say you can run the national if you run a regional), is because you do not have to race one of them to make a national event. Let's make that assumption for now... if support for a local ROAR is needed to make national event, then the local tracks would have a entries thus would support running ROAR races. In your case Region 2 is not lacking a track(s) to run a ROAR race.....
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:50 PM   #371
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I also can't see why the top finishers getting first crack at entries is a bad idea. If you let the "non-qualifiers" in after a certain date, the net result is the same, other than a situation where the race actually sells out to people who qualified.
Interesting idea....
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:18 AM   #372
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Guys, it does not have to be a Regional race to let you qualify. The idea is not meant to keep out the regular guy. It is meant to first support our sport in a way that promotes all levels of racing, to promote Roar at the local level and to ensure the people that do support our sport are able to enter the National level races.

I do not do this for a living and understand tring to juggle this sport/hobby and work, but there needs to be a system. A free for all is not correct either. There are plenty of Roar races around the US throughout the year that people could attend at least one to qualify. If you live in an area that does not promote Regional level events, than this is a problem. A system would maybe push these areas to start running some type of Regional event. Not sure, as every area has its own issues, but hopefully over time things can get better organized at all levels.

Just food for though,

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Old 06-24-2009, 06:41 AM   #373
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When is Region 2's regionals anyway?
Region 2's 1/8 Regional is on Sept. 19-20 at Ironbridge Sports Park in Richmond VA. We will also be running the 1/10 Mid Atlantic Championships trophy race at the same time. http://www.vorra.org We have been trying to advertise this on the Racing Forum. We are also arranging race sponsors which is why we don't have a flyer yet. Don't know about the 1/10 regional. You will have to ask Chris Whitney about that. He is our region director. Hope that helps. (Sorry to get off topic but he asked...)

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Old 06-24-2009, 07:43 AM   #374
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If there is no region race, why not allow for the region director to take resumes? If you don't even have enough support for a regional that should not be too great of a burden.

I also can't see why the top finishers getting first crack at entries is a bad idea. If you let the "non-qualifiers" in after a certain date, the net result is the same, other than a situation where the race actually sells out to people who qualified.
I don't know how to respond to this...I just think everyone should be able to race and if the venue can't handle the number of racers that signed up, someplace that can should get the bid.

Now, for the situation we are in now where there's a cut off, I'd say yes, you have a great ideal. Top finishers get some period of time where their slot is held for confirmation, after that, it's open to all.

I agree to partially disagree.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:48 AM   #375
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Maybe the reason you do not have any regional races or local ROAR races (I did say you can run the national if you run a regional), is because you do not have to race one of them to make a national event. Let's make that assumption for now... if support for a local ROAR is needed to make national event, then the local tracks would have a entries thus would support running ROAR races. In your case Region 2 is not lacking a track(s) to run a ROAR race.....
So what if you're a really fast guy and for some God given reason, you're strapped financially this year? You live in NJ and your regionals is at, 301 and the Nationals is in Ohio. You can only attend one because of finances. That would really suck, wouldn't it. Might even cause some people to just say, forget it, this hobby is too expensive anyway...now I gotta spend more money to race?!?!?!
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