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Old 06-20-2009, 11:23 AM   #331
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DJ ...... thanks for the words of encouragement. We are looking into this. It would be a very difficult task to manage and ensure fairness for all members in all regions. I really like the idea of Regional/State Qualifiers but how do we get participation from regions for certain classes of racing where there is minimal participation for that style of racing? Does that limit the ability of member where a regional/or state qualifier isn't held to be able to qualify. Would he now be forced to seen $100's of dollars to travel to another region or state to have a chance at qualifying? I'd love to hear ideas if you have them DJ. You can contact me any time you like to discuss as this thread is not the place.

Thanks
I understand this is a little late, but I'm not able to attend the Nats so I have not been following all this...[Edit]

As stated above, and offered before....

I agree with DJ, you need to "earn" a spot in the Nats, in any form, on any surface. Look at other forms of racing and you will find effective systems.

Since most of you have a problem of how to solve this... Then start at step one, try something, small and let it take shape.

Again, I offer an idea, build on it, toss it out, modify it, it is all up to you....
To run a national event you must run X number of State or Regional ROAR races. Start with 5 or 10 or 3, you guys can figure the starting point, you have more data then I to figure the starting point. Do not care what Reg you run in, or travel to run it, you must run x number events. This will support the Regions. You will also see the Regions adding events and forms to support this, if the top is supporting the bottom, the bottom will support the top. I call it a punch system. If this proofs to be to many entries, OK, then define qualifying races or simply up the required number of events.

NOT EVERY NEEDS TO BE ALLOWED INTO A NATIONAL EVENT. A NATIONAL EVENT IS FOR SKILLED TO RACE, NOT THE BEGINNER. PUT "VALUE" BACK IN THE NATIONAL EVENT.

ROAR has done a great job, under the new leadership, and there is more to do, YES!!!!!, but Rome was not build over night.
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:07 PM   #332
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What I don't understand is why every single form of competitive sport racing hobby that they make you qualify at a smaller level to make it to the next level. It just does not make sense that anyone can race a National event in rc. Further more privateers have to race with the professionals but that is another topic for another time.

I think that I read that it would be hard to manage regionals to qualify but Rc Pro does it.
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Old 06-20-2009, 07:22 PM   #333
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What I don't understand is why every single form of competitive sport racing hobby that they make you qualify at a smaller level to make it to the next level. It just does not make sense that anyone can race a National event in rc. Further more privateers have to race with the professionals but that is another topic for another time.

I think that I read that it would be hard to manage regionals to qualify but Rc Pro does it.
Not really true. You can show up and race in a NHRA national event. You can race the CWS Truck series, and Nation Wide series. You can run national kart events. How can you tell a member. that pays the same membership price, they can't compete?
We use to have to qualify, via the regional path, but some areas, had alot of people trying to qualify, and some regions had just a few. And just because you had someone qualify, if the were in a region that had just a few people, it was possible a beginer could still run the nats. So that throws out the idea, that the nats were just for the best drivers.
i guess my point is, we do things like we do, because lots of these ideas have been tried, and didn't work.
But I think everyone should keep throwing ideas out there, I think there is a group in ROAR, that is listening.
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Old 06-20-2009, 07:53 PM   #334
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Not really true. You can show up and race in a NHRA national event. You can race the CWS Truck series, and Nation Wide series. You can run national kart events. How can you tell a member. that pays the same membership price, they can't compete?
We use to have to qualify, via the regional path, but some areas, had alot of people trying to qualify, and some regions had just a few. And just because you had someone qualify, if the were in a region that had just a few people, it was possible a beginer could still run the nats. So that throws out the idea, that the nats were just for the best drivers.
i guess my point is, we do things like we do, because lots of these ideas have been tried, and didn't work.
But I think everyone should keep throwing ideas out there, I think there is a group in ROAR, that is listening.
REALLY... I raced both WKA and IKF, for 22 years, you had to run the local events in order to run the nationals. Yes, in the beginning of WKA you did not have to as the built membership, but that only lasted a few years.

Let me define "beginner", the person that just purchased an R/C kit and heads to the track. A person that does not have the driving skills to get out way of a person that is faster and holds them up.

Your membership does not imply you have a right to run the nationals, and to be very up front, I would hate to be the "beginner" that takes out one of the top guys. The nationals is for the top regional people to race each other. On other side, after the amount of money we spend to get to a national event, I would not be happy to have a "beginner" in my qualifier.

Another idea, is to run both 1/8th and 1/10th at the same track 3 days for one 3 days for the other, this way travel cost and time are cut down.

Another idea - raise the entry fees, but this could remove someone that is very good, but can not afford the entry fee.

Another idea, add rental lights for the nationals, and run into the night....

Another idea, Run more cars on the track at the same time...

Just because things tried in the past have not worked, does not mean it will not work now. Timing has a lot to do with ideas....
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Old 06-20-2009, 11:19 PM   #335
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REALLY... I raced both WKA and IKF, for 22 years, you had to run the local events in order to run the nationals. Yes, in the beginning of WKA you did not have to as the built membership, but that only lasted a few years.

Let me define "beginner", the person that just purchased an R/C kit and heads to the track. A person that does not have the driving skills to get out way of a person that is faster and holds them up.

Your membership does not imply you have a right to run the nationals, and to be very up front, I would hate to be the "beginner" that takes out one of the top guys. The nationals is for the top regional people to race each other. On other side, after the amount of money we spend to get to a national event, I would not be happy to have a "beginner" in my qualifier.

Another idea, is to run both 1/8th and 1/10th at the same track 3 days for one 3 days for the other, this way travel cost and time are cut down.

Another idea - raise the entry fees, but this could remove someone that is very good, but can not afford the entry fee.

Another idea, add rental lights for the nationals, and run into the night....

Another idea, Run more cars on the track at the same time...

Just because things tried in the past have not worked, does not mean it will not work now. Timing has a lot to do with ideas....
Well, I was at the grand national event this pass weekend,they have the same problem. Some areas have no regional qualifier. You show up, snd they just put a different color number plate. They use to have a novice class at the nats.. But say you have a regional race, only 10 people run the class, a biginer, or someone with less driving skills, , would still qualify. If you start making rules on who can attend races, you will lose support for ROAR. And that has been done too.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:12 AM   #336
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Well, I was at the grand national event this pass weekend,they have the same problem. Some areas have no regional qualifier. You show up, snd they just put a different color number plate. They use to have a novice class at the nats.. But say you have a regional race, only 10 people run the class, a biginer, or someone with less driving skills, , would still qualify. If you start making rules on who can attend races, you will lose support for ROAR. And that has been done too.
Which WKA division do you run? They have more then one... I ran in the Mfg Cup... On road sprint...

And I do not agree with you, I think this will support building racers at the grass roots level.... But so we agree to disagree...
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:27 AM   #337
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I think that I read that it would be hard to manage regionals to qualify but Rc Pro does it.
Great....so when and where are the RcPro 200mm TC & 1/8th on road Nats going to be held this year??
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:13 PM   #338
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What I don't understand is why every single form of competitive sport racing hobby that they make you qualify at a smaller level to make it to the next level. It just does not make sense that anyone can race a National event in rc. Further more privateers have to race with the professionals but that is another topic for another time.

I think that I read that it would be hard to manage regionals to qualify but Rc Pro does it.
If RC Pro was so successful with it why have they eliminated their fuel on road program? I can tell you why, it wasn't profitable for them. RC Pro is a for profit business ran by people that get paid wages/salaries. ROAR is a non profit ran by volunteers that are passionate and care about rc racing and ROAR. RC Pro can't even afford to break even. ROAR only needs to break even to make our events work.

I agree, ROAR needs a qual system, but a system that tells members they can't race is not what ROAR needs, at least not IMO. Wardo makes some really good points. DJ and BV make good points.

BV .. we made changes this year and it seems to have worked in the end. Over the last few years we've totaled about 225 entries between the 2 different nationals. 2 events held in different locations, on different tracks that cost you twice the $$$$$ to participate in. This year we have 225 entries, still some open 1/8th spots left, balanced between open and 1/8th at one track for 5 days. Those that ran both classes can do so at one event, for half the travel and lodging $$$$$. Running under the lights ???? Not something the host track should have to pay for and not within ROAR's budget. Raising entry fees??? We did that starting last year and we've been blasted for it. Racer members already feel $80 is to much for a race entry. Regardless of it being a national title. So some of what you suggested has been tried and yes we are listening.


What about the following for a qual system. This my personal idea not that of ROAR....
  1. Uses national events, regional events, and possibly existing major events in a ranking/qualifying system.
  2. Those that qualify earn an early entry opportunity to reg for their ROAR national event. Meaning only those that meet the qualification, what ever they are, and only those qualified for the event would be allowed to reg for a ROAR National say 30 days before anyone else.
  3. Those qualified for the event would be seated in heats only with qualified racers.
  4. After the qualified entry period any and all spots remaining are opened to general membership possibly a lottery if need be.
  5. To stay qualified you would be required to keep your ROAR membership current at all times. Any laps in membership and you loose your qualified position.

This is a basic system. Allows anyone that deserves to be there the opportunity to prove they belong there. It allows those that earned the right to be there the opportunity to insure their entry into the event. It also gives members an opportunity to participate without qualifying. ROAR doesn't tell it's membership it can't race, and gives an equal opportunity to all members to be part of a national championship. You either work to prove you belong because you are serious about RC racing or you roll the dice because the race is coming to your local track and you want the opportunity to be part of the BIG SHOW.
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:43 PM   #339
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Racers,

Those that are coming to the ROAR Open Nationals in Toledo, I need your names if you want to reserve a spot. If you have not requested one yet, please email either myself or Ted Hammer ([email protected] or [email protected]). As of now this is the list of drivers that have a requested pit space(s):

See newer posting for latest names

If your name is not there and you did request a spot, please email me. There have been numerous requests coming in and I could have missed one or two, if so sorry.

I am only taking requests via email not this thread. I check the spots and assign them in the evening after work. I place them in order as they come in.

Take care guys!

Last edited by Brian Berry; 06-22-2009 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Later posting of names
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:28 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by schurcr View Post
If RC Pro was so successful with it why have they eliminated their fuel on road program? I can tell you why, it wasn't profitable for them. RC Pro is a for profit business ran by people that get paid wages/salaries. ROAR is a non profit ran by volunteers that are passionate and care about rc racing and ROAR. RC Pro can't even afford to break even. ROAR only needs to break even to make our events work.

I agree, ROAR needs a qual system, but a system that tells members they can't race is not what ROAR needs, at least not IMO. Wardo makes some really good points. DJ and BV make good points.

BV .. we made changes this year and it seems to have worked in the end. Over the last few years we've totaled about 225 entries between the 2 different nationals. 2 events held in different locations, on different tracks that cost you twice the $$$$$ to participate in. This year we have 225 entries, still some open 1/8th spots left, balanced between open and 1/8th at one track for 5 days. Those that ran both classes can do so at one event, for half the travel and lodging $$$$$. Running under the lights ???? Not something the host track should have to pay for and not within ROAR's budget. Raising entry fees??? We did that starting last year and we've been blasted for it. Racer members already feel $80 is to much for a race entry. Regardless of it being a national title. So some of what you suggested has been tried and yes we are listening.


What about the following for a qual system. This my personal idea not that of ROAR....
  1. Uses national events, regional events, and possibly existing major events in a ranking/qualifying system.
  2. Those that qualify earn an early entry opportunity to reg for their ROAR national event. Meaning only those that meet the qualification, what ever they are, and only those qualified for the event would be allowed to reg for a ROAR National say 30 days before anyone else.
  3. Those qualified for the event would be seated in heats only with qualified racers.
  4. After the qualified entry period any and all spots remaining are opened to general membership possibly a lottery if need be.
  5. To stay qualified you would be required to keep your ROAR membership current at all times. Any laps in membership and you loose your qualified position.

This is a basic system. Allows anyone that deserves to be there the opportunity to prove they belong there. It allows those that earned the right to be there the opportunity to insure their entry into the event. It also gives members an opportunity to participate without qualifying. ROAR doesn't tell it's membership it can't race, and gives an equal opportunity to all members to be part of a national championship. You either work to prove you belong because you are serious about RC racing or you roll the dice because the race is coming to your local track and you want the opportunity to be part of the BIG SHOW.
We agree to disagree... I personally do not think you can just run a national event, I feel you have to race locally, in order to race a national. But ok, so not every one agrees. Yes I have been to a national and GLC, but the current economy has caused me to put up the nitro car, thus I can not make it this year, and it is only 4 hours from my home... But that is life... Anyway, I have invested time and developed skills to not be in the way on the track, BEFORE I went to the first big race, it is about paying your dues. Yes I'm not one of the fast people, but I know how and have the skills to get out of the way... My point, I would hate to see a 7th grade basketball team play an NBA team in the payoffs, for me that is the same thing by allowing anyone run any ROAR event.... The nationals is for the top dogs to play, and I did not say only the top 10 or 50 or 100, but a national is for ones that have made the investment in time and have reasonably developed skills, not a newbie...

this is just my opinion, if you do not agree, no problem and no bad feels, we just have a different opinion...

I'm not disappointed by the limitation of entries... I really agree with this limit and I REALLY like the combined event.

Any as I have said before, ROAR has done a GREAT job in the past couple of years, they are tying things, and will everyone like it, nope... But they are trying... That shows the rest of us they are open and thinking. My hat off to the whole group....
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:29 PM   #341
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BVoltz ..... we agree to disagree ..... at least it's respectful I hear your argument, but you have to keep in mind ROAR is about all members, the new guy, the old timer, the joe and the pro and everyone else in between.

Maybe or opinions aren't as far off as you think. In a system like the one I described you would have the top guys in there and a few others. I've been to quite a few big races over the years and the cream always rises to the top.

Thanks for the and yes we are trying hard to do the right thing
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:58 AM   #342
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So, maybe the discussion of Nats qualifications, etc. can be taken off-line or perhaps start another thread?
That will leave this thread for discussion for this year's Nationals - such as Brian's communications.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:16 AM   #343
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So, maybe the discussion of Nats qualifications, etc. can be taken off-line or perhaps start another thread?
That will leave this thread for discussion for this year's Nationals - such as Brian's communications.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:36 PM   #344
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Brian Berry you got PM...
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:43 PM   #345
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Brian Berry you got PM...
Roniel,
Are you running an XRAY NT-1 sedan for the Nats?
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