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Old 03-28-2007, 09:07 PM   #1216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron_buran
I never raise the front upper a-arm, we usually go lower, Delta and Empire both make lowered a-arm mounts, this increases the amount of camber gain and effects the roll center. The only time I went higher was when I ran on ultra low bite tracks to get the car to push, to stop it from spinning out. To get rid of steering I usally work with the front bar and castor before I start raising the front upper a-arm. I think the car is the best when I can run the front bar at 45 degrees and still have enough steering to get through the corner.
aaron I thought putting .5 to 1mm shims under the upper a arm gives you more steering?
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:34 AM   #1217
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That hasn't been my experience, raising the front mount reduces the camber gain, when the car rolls.

However, for every rule, there is an exception, so in certain circumstances you may see a different result.
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:50 AM   #1218
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Default Rear Roll Center

Does anyone know what the 7-3.5mm holders and the rear do to the roll center. I assume that it forces the lower hinge pins to be closer to the center line of the chassis making the roll center in the rear respond quicker. Now the Delta holders that Robert mentioned, are they similar in geometry to the 3.5 or something in between, or completely different?
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:08 AM   #1219
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The longer the rear a-arm, the more the car will roll, this will free the car up, and steer more, and will make the car looser.

The Delta 10-2's are 1.5mm wider than the 7-3.5's... So the car will roll less with the 10-2's... But will usually steer more due to the higher roll-center +3mm.

On parking lot tracks, I always run the 10-2's to get the most steering. I wish someone made a 10-3.5, that would be the best of both worlds, maybe someone will make them. Because when the rollcenter is raised in the back so high, the car tends to stay flatter than I would like it.

The wierd thing is if you look at a Mugen car, it's rollcenter is ultra low in comparison, via the lower inner hinge pin and the axle height in the rear upright and I believe the distance between the lower hinge pins is comprable to the 7-3.5's... With this combination the Mugen car steers alot. I am going to play with some custom roll centers this summer, that mimick the ultra low approach that the Mugen uses to test what happens on our car.

Have you noticed how Mugen cars slide around the track alot, whereas the Evolva stays fairly planted? I think this is the reason, good or bad it's in the rollcenter and rear a-arm length.

It's probably not too ironic that the new 07 lower a-arms are longer , maybe there are some new 7-5's on the way?
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:53 PM   #1220
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The 3.5mm holders (the black ones included with the WC) move the pins inboard. Besides making the lower arms longer, it has the effect of raising the rear roll center, which in theory, will 'add' steering to the car.
The arm holders included with the 05 kit (the silver ones) move the pins outboard and have the opposite effect of the 3.5 holders. They make the rear lower arms more parallel with the rear upper arms, which lowers the rear roll center.

Anytime the upper and lower arms are more parallel to each other, the lower the roll center. The less parallel they are, the higher the roll center. Front roll center is almost always lower than rear roll center. If you look at any car from the side and visualize a line between the front and rear roll centers, the line will slope up going from the front to the back. The more you increase the angle of that imaginary line (i.e. 3.5mm holders), the more aggressive the steering/the more loose the car will feel, at least in theory with any car.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:48 PM   #1221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpoage
...I will give a look at the 3.5's again but IMO they leave too much exposed pivot bal stud in the Rear A-Arm.
What width do you run in the rear? I run the 3.5 blocks pretty much everywhere now.
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:03 AM   #1222
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i noticed on the editable setup sheet from kyoshoamerica.com there is a space for scrub set.
what is scrub set and what does it do?

also, on the same setup sheet it has a space for servo saver position and servo saver height. what do these refer to and what do they do?

again on the setup sheet there is a spot for front upper 0/2. is this refering to the spacers under the front upper arm mounts?

sorry for all the questions but i just can't figure these ones out.
any help is appreciated
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:11 AM   #1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garen
The 3.5mm holders (the black ones included with the WC) move the pins inboard. Besides making the lower arms longer, it has the effect of raising the rear roll center, which in theory, will 'add' steering to the car.
The arm holders included with the 05 kit (the silver ones) move the pins outboard and have the opposite effect of the 3.5 holders. They make the rear lower arms more parallel with the rear upper arms, which lowers the rear roll center.

Anytime the upper and lower arms are more parallel to each other, the lower the roll center. The less parallel they are, the higher the roll center. Front roll center is almost always lower than rear roll center. If you look at any car from the side and visualize a line between the front and rear roll centers, the line will slope up going from the front to the back. The more you increase the angle of that imaginary line (i.e. 3.5mm holders), the more aggressive the steering/the more loose the car will feel, at least in theory with any car.
Thank you so much for this info regarding 3.5mm holders
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:32 AM   #1224
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twiggy - scrub set refers to the mumber of shims between the bearing and the pin on the axle. This affects how the wheel sits over the uprights. In the rear if you run less shims, the more stable braking will be but you will have lessen your ability to slide the rear of the car (understeer in the rear). How scrub affects the front, I've yet to be able to try that. The other setting on the sheet, I'm also unsure of what Kyosho is meaning by Front 0/2.

aaron - thanks again for the advice about the short wheelbase. That was what was what I was needing for the car.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:52 AM   #1225
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Glad to hear you liked the SWB....

More scrub up front will make the car steer more, sometimes you will loose a little steering on-center, but gain at the end points of the travel, like adding more caster.

Adding scrub to the rear, usually makes the car steer more as well. Adding scrub on either end of the car will usually increase tire wear as well.

I believe the 0/2 setting describes the upright(steering blocks) 0 or 2 degree.

I always run the 0's..... More steering.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:58 AM   #1226
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On the servo saver height and position, depending on which servo saver you are running (there a 3 versions) you can change the bump steer (height) as well as the ackerman fore and aft (depending on the version). I run the plastic one, #12 almost everywhere.
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Old 04-08-2007, 02:33 PM   #1227
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Hi guys!

I have followed this thread with great interest, and I have learned lots form you guys, especially aaron_buran's elaborations. FYI, after 20 years absent from this hobby, and flying RC airoplanes & helicopters, I race since 2 years in The Netherlands with my Evolva. I have upgraded the chassis from the 2003 to 2006WC version. I use the editable PDF setup sheet from kyosho_usa and which is simple and easy to use. After modifying the car, I had several test days with lots of headaches to find a good setup. But finally I found the very best setup so far and 2 weeks ago it resulted in my best race ever. Several personal records were broken. Next week I will compete in my first nationals and I am very confident about the car & setup. Anyway it is not my hometrack so hopefully I can find a god setup there, but I feel that the bases right now will work very well. I have tested on that track once last year and know the asphalt surface and corners.

Frankly speaking the pictures of the pre-production parts are really interesting, and guided me towards the setup that I have found now. I would appreciate to see more pictures in case you have any updates. For sure Kyosho will introduce the 2007 version around the WC in Cordoba, based on the same platform, and the parst that you guys are testing now.

Any questions, or better suggestions, feel free to advise.
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Old 04-10-2007, 09:38 PM   #1228
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Anyone have any idea when the 05 to 07 conversion kit will be out?
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Old 04-10-2007, 11:43 PM   #1229
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Quote:
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Anyone have any idea when the 05 to 07 conversion kit will be out?
I would say very soon.
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Old 04-12-2007, 06:04 PM   #1230
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Kyosho have new the Evolva 2007 setup sheets on their web site. So I wonder when it will be released then???

Click here
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