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Old 08-16-2007, 06:36 AM   #1501
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Default MSR Spring

Is it 'super hard' or 'ultra hard'? We have a few MSR springs available here

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Originally Posted by aaron_buran View Post
I was told that Swauger replaces his after every hour of use, not sure if that is true or not. I know Chicky quit running the spring for that reason, he has been running the JP these days.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:57 AM   #1502
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I am not sure which one, the ones I had, came with a yellow header card on them. Honestly I was never very impressed with them, in comparision to the JP and the Orion. For the most part I always run the Kyosho 4D spring, unless the traction is very high (ie Toledo). And I stuggled a little bit at the GLC because of that, that was the first race I had ran this year where we had that kind of traction all day long. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to have the clutch set on kill all the time to go fast. Running a slightly milder clutch makes the car easier to drive and it is much easier to make a 5 minute run (mileage)

The 4D spring with the kit weights and grey shoe works almost everywhere. I ran that at 301 just fine, which was pretty good traction. I also ran the same setup at the Byron race, which was probably a mistake becase the car was a little soft off the corner in comparision to Chicky and Mikey's car. The kit clutch was great in Canada also.

The kit setup would not cut it at the GLC though.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:22 AM   #1503
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Default MSR Spring

You know I have tried those springs a few years back (super hard and ultra hard) and there is no linear action. Shimo was present and told me to change back to 4D spring and I am using that ever since. I just feel I need just a hair of punch. Since u have mentioned JP/Orion I will try them and see the difference. Appreciated yr explaination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron_buran View Post
I am not sure which one, the ones I had, came with a yellow header card on them. Honestly I was never very impressed with them, in comparision to the JP and the Orion. For the most part I always run the Kyosho 4D spring, unless the traction is very high (ie Toledo). And I stuggled a little bit at the GLC because of that, that was the first race I had ran this year where we had that kind of traction all day long. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to have the clutch set on kill all the time to go fast. Running a slightly milder clutch makes the car easier to drive and it is much easier to make a 5 minute run (mileage)

The 4D spring with the kit weights and grey shoe works almost everywhere. I ran that at 301 just fine, which was pretty good traction. I also ran the same setup at the Byron race, which was probably a mistake becase the car was a little soft off the corner in comparision to Chicky and Mikey's car. The kit clutch was great in Canada also.

The kit setup would not cut it at the GLC though.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:59 AM   #1504
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Aaron, @ the GLC in practice I ran my NovaMax w/msr spring set @ 1.57 and it was perfect. However! I switched (shouldn't have) to my Collari Plus engine w/ the msr clutch spring set the same way during quals and I had too much punch, rendering the car almost undrivable. QUESTION: Does anyone make a clutch spring adjustment tool, so adiustments can be done quickly during warmup?
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:06 AM   #1505
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Right, if it acts like an on off switch, it's really hard to drive.

Keep in mind that what you see out of Europe and Japan on the clutch setup is geared toward their tracks/traction, which are usually not treated tracks.

They never have the type of traction we see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slide_228 View Post
You know I have tried those springs a few years back (super hard and ultra hard) and there is no linear action. Shimo was present and told me to change back to 4D spring and I am using that ever since. I just feel I need just a hair of punch. Since u have mentioned JP/Orion I will try them and see the difference. Appreciated yr explaination.
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:07 AM   #1506
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No, unfortunatley you have to take our clutch apart.

What were the rest of your settings with the spring, and which MSR spring?

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Aaron, @ the GLC in practice I ran my NovaMax w/msr spring set @ 1.57 and it was perfect. However! I switched (shouldn't have) to my Collari Plus engine w/ the msr clutch spring set the same way during quals and I had too much punch, rendering the car almost undrivable. QUESTION: Does anyone make a clutch spring adjustment tool, so adiustments can be done quickly during warmup?
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:23 AM   #1507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron_buran View Post
No, unfortunatley you have to take our clutch apart.

What were the rest of your settings with the spring, and which MSR spring?
endplay .05
bell shimmed away from shoe a nanohair so they don't touch

if i went .04 and loosened the spring to 1.50 or so maybe.....
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:04 AM   #1508
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I must admit that I have been guilty in the past of the "set the clutch to kill" syndrome (still do some time) but I've reduced my shoe to bell clearance to .3mm (I shim for this clearance and cut endplay to a trace) and like Aaron has mentioned, gained drivability with very slight loss in punch.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:26 AM   #1509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroHead View Post
Aaron, @ the GLC in practice I ran my NovaMax w/msr spring set @ 1.57 and it was perfect. However! I switched (shouldn't have) to my Collari Plus engine w/ the msr clutch spring set the same way during quals and I had too much punch, rendering the car almost undrivable. QUESTION: Does anyone make a clutch spring adjustment tool, so adiustments can be done quickly during warmup?

I believe that YBSLOW's clutch tool does fit the Kyosho 1/8th car. It definitely does fit the Mugen 1/8th and sedan and does not fit the Kyosho sedan, but I am almost sure it fits on the Evolva.
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Old 08-16-2007, 01:54 PM   #1510
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Quote:
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I believe that YBSLOW's clutch tool does fit the Kyosho 1/8th car. It definitely does fit the Mugen 1/8th and sedan and does not fit the Kyosho sedan, but I am almost sure it fits on the Evolva.
There's probably no less than 50 items in a given R/C tool box that you can use to lock the KYO clutch without taking it apart (I happen to have a broken Thorp .050 wrench that works well for this). The purpose built spring tools seem to be a problem because the gap between the 2nd gear pinion and bell is a bit tight....that's usually where they get hung up. In my opinion, this is all a moot point because once I've made about 3 or 4 laps with my car, the flywheel is hot enough that I don't care to touch it to make the adjustment in the car. Maybe I need some of those gloves like Howard Bortman uses?

I had the same issue Aaron did at the GLC.....I ran the 'safe' clutch setup too long into qualifying to ensure I made time. I finally set it a bit closer to 'kill' for the last round and had better performance with adequate run time.

Last round clutch settings: Grey Shoe, Orion Spring (1.5), Gap .5, Lightened flyweights (4mm hole). I shim the bell until it's bound, then remove a .1mm shim.

I learned a good lesson at this race.....I think. I've always known that hot clutches waste fuel. I think that most folks presume that it's the clutch slip itself that normally causes you to sit on the track in silence at the 4:30 minute mark. While it IS true that a clutch that slips all the time will cost runtime, I think that what normally happens is that the tires spin...this is the bigger waste. I know for a fact that I couldn't make time with the setup I used in the last round if the traction were lower (tried it early in practice) but it seems that with higher bite in the later rounds, I got away with it. Am I missing something or do you guys agree that it might be more about wheel spin than clutch slip?
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Old 08-16-2007, 02:21 PM   #1511
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Aaron, are you running the 3D or 4D clutch? And what's the deal with the 07 parts? Which ones are being used?
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Old 08-16-2007, 03:56 PM   #1512
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We are using everything but the lower a-arms... And depending on the track either the long original rear upper, or the short rear upper arm. To use the long upper a-arm you need to grind the bosses down to use the new body mount uprights.

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Aaron, are you running the 3D or 4D clutch? And what's the deal with the 07 parts? Which ones are being used?
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:02 PM   #1513
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I think it's both, it depends on the track.... The slipping is not just off the corner, but down the straight away as well. With light flyweights and heavy springs when the car tops out, the clutch can start to slip at high speed, it's hard to notice but it does. I think that is where the benifit of lever weight comes into play. They the give you the sensation of a lighter flyweight, with a wider gap, but virutally locks out in medium to high RPM.

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I got away with it. Am I missing something or do you guys agree that it might be more about wheel spin than clutch slip?
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:03 PM   #1514
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I am running the 3D, but I want to test a 2D setup with the 4D clutch. What is wierd is the 4D flywheel is much bigger and heavier, and I am not sure that I like that.

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We are using everything but the lower a-arms... And depending on the track either the long original rear upper, or the short rear upper arm. To use the long upper a-arm you need to grind the bosses down to use the new body mount uprights.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:38 PM   #1515
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Aaron,

I like the 432 set-up you gave me. I run the 432 spring with a 3D kit @ 1.4mm and 4mm holes w/ a grey shoe.

I just got a new 3D kit and it had a 352 (??) spring in it?? What is that? It measures like a 432 but is red-ish grey in color- not just gray like the 432 spring. They are both 10mm long and have a 1.9mm coil. It's not a FMW10 (red spring)- its more like the 432.

If you are in Toledo Sunday, I'll see you there.
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