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Old 02-27-2009, 01:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
A pit stop is required.
in mid size track i'm can run 7-8 mins .

if need pit stop , Engine need turn ultra fast 4min fuel & pit stop .
how can in Final same this format to race ?
engine & lap time will drop .

& pit stop lap need more 5-6 sec + ,
is very hard get lose 5-6sec pit stop time.

2 choice only !
safe drive or ultra fast !

Last edited by RC MARKET; 02-27-2009 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 01:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
10min qualifiers brings up fuel mileage issues and people having to lean on motors to so they can make 5 min or in a 10 min qual 1 pit stop....
We did not have any issues with leaning of engines and most of us ran the 10 min qual on one pit stop. We did this on tracks 70ft to 90ft wide by 200ft to 250ft long. Maybe instead of trying to lean the engine to the max, how about changing clutch/spur gears or shift points on the two-speed. Our permanent track south of Fort Worth, TX is approx 80ft by 250ft and I run almost 6min per tank at 225F degrees to 245F degrees.

In a 30min main, you normally make 5 pit stops (some can do it on 4). So, if you can't make a 10min qual on one pit and keep your engine in a respectable temp range (210F degrees to 260F degrees), then you have other issues going on. We did this in Texas during the hottest and most humid times (the Houston area) of the year with not many issues.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Pattojnr View Post
"In the interest of the sport, and according the intention of the rule "
i really think this rule is going to make the sport unobtainalbe for any unsponsored racer. if these rules end up here in Australia, i feel it will push most out of any contention to compete against a sponsored driver.
really if one cant make 5 mins, then they are already pushing the boundaries of the engines performance to meet the runtime. if one only has to make 3.5 mins before a refuel, then you will see motors pushing a huge amount of power designed to run 4 mins max. this means incase of a problem with an engine, you will have to have at least 2 qualifying engines (then the boundaries will again be pushed ) and at least 2 Finals engines that are designed to make 5 mins. its hard enough to have one fast engine that makes 5 mins for most, and a back up engine would be a stock engine.
it wont be ling before the 7 min ruling will be pushed to the limits, people runnign out of fuel in 3.5 mins, now how long are those motors going to last.
i think in the INTEREST OF THE SPORT, if one wants to push the 5 min boundaries, then so be it. most make 5 mins , or more, so i cant see why a rule change is required to accomodate people with an endless budget and a BIG box of motors at any one event.
just my concern on how i see the rules changing the face of nationals or international racing.
This can be argued in two ways.
But first, what was the reason to go to this format? I think that maybe the fast guys couldn't make the 5min run time with what they have already.

I think Engines have been pushed to the limits of known materials now.

The old thought that you have to have an expensive motor to go fast, I don't buy into that. Fast guys are always going to be fast. Some of the fastest engines that I have owned were bone stock engines.

But when you go to a high level event, like the Worlds, the fuel is handout, and you have the option of running whatever enigne you choose....Should they also be handout engines from the manufacture to limit the cost to the racer and level the field? Afterall, they are trying to become the "World Champion" Right? If you have qualified to go to the Worlds, you would think that you would deserve a little extra incentive. Have the engines pre ran-in and boxed. Don't you think that the manufacture would send the BEST, FASTEST engines they could? If you burn them up, your done. (WOULDN'T THAT BE THE WAY TO GO.....we all know that won't happen.)
Now, on another note, just a few weeks ago, I was about to be passed by DJ at the Winternats in the "A" and when going down the back straight at wide open throttle, just being passed, trying to follow him, (I was standing next to him), he sais "don't get right on my back bumper" as it looked like he hit 3rd gear....(do you think that he just pulled the trigger a little harder) and pulled about 20 feet on me........ Now I will say that DJ has always been fast, but now with Novarossi behind him, "FORGET-IT", your just racing for 2nd place......He is just that fast!
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC MARKET View Post
in mid size track i'm can run 7-8 mins .

if need pit stop , Engine need turn ultra fast 4min fuel & pit stop .
how can in Final same this format to race ?
engine & lap time will drop .

& pit stop lap need more 5-6 sec + ,
is very hard get lose 5-6sec pit stop time.

2 choice only !
safe drive or ultra fast !
You aren't reading the rule. A pit stop is REQUIRED! It doesn't matter if you can go 7 or not. You HAVE to make a stop.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by JLock View Post
We did not have any issues with leaning of engines and most of us ran the 10 min qual on one pit stop. We did this on tracks 70ft to 90ft wide by 200ft to 250ft long. Maybe instead of trying to lean the engine to the max, how about changing clutch/spur gears or shift points on the two-speed. Our permanent track south of Fort Worth, TX is approx 80ft by 250ft and I run almost 6min per tank at 225F degrees to 245F degrees.

In a 30min main, you normally make 5 pit stops (some can do it on 4). So, if you can't make a 10min qual on one pit and keep your engine in a respectable temp range (210F degrees to 260F degrees), then you have other issues going on. We did this in Texas during the hottest and most humid times (the Houston area) of the year with not many issues.


I know leaning out isn't the only solution... I was just pointing out some of the reasoning to going with a 7 min format with a required pit.....
Your track might not be one of those tracks where run time is an issue....

Anyway qualifying is just trying to find who is fast enough to be seeded for the mains... All the fuel strategy and tire strategy can play out in the Mains.....
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:34 PM   #21
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The problem of needing a separate qualifying and a separate Main engine has a easy fix.
Tune (mod) your engine in such a way that with the smallest airrestrictor(5.5mm) it will make about 3.5-4 minutes, so you have the additional performance during qualifying, then for the finals you simply place a bigger restrictor(smaller hole) and then you will make the 5 minutes again.
Problem solved and no need to buy extra special engines. Atleast that's how i'm going to deal with the new rules.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:07 PM   #22
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it's just killing this sport

4 minutes heavily tuned factory engine... lifespan aprox 2 hours.
heavier to tune, alot more expensive, not suitable for average Joe

who wants that?
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:50 AM   #23
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Even the top gun's don't like it:

Quote:
Josh Cyrul - February 28th, 2009 at 00:36

More fuel usage, more tire usage, seperate qualification engines (3:30 fuel milage) and clutch set-ups as well as the need for good pit people in qualification (top drivers/companies with more dedicated mechanics) just adds more cost with the same results except probably a decrease in attendance as more people see that it doesn’t add up…….

Adding 5cc doesn’t fix the problem either as we will find a way to use it so in 3-6 months the same problem is here.

EFRA I think made a poor choice on this one….
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
I've joined 1-2 races with this format and I personally like it... I can concentrate on going fast without putting the motor on extreme lean conditions for qualifying....

I'm glad that my local track keeps up with what is going on regarding rules world wide.... Try it, some of your worries might be put to ease.....
I have no real issue with the format itself ... Its more runtime and good practice for the pitman.

The problem I have is ...

If an engine is only required to run 3 1/2 minutes then pretty soon manufacturers will be producing ballistic engines that can only run 3 1/2 minutes.

At he moment I can go racing alone and call a favour for the mains ... its a lot of favours for a whole days racing under this rule.

Seems a little backward given that these days Lipo/Brushless cars can run longer (and faster!) and are attracting support because of this.

As far as I can see this will only serve to make gas touring cars more elitist and less accessible to new recruits to our sport. Surely this is the opposite of what we want?

Me no likee!
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Last edited by getpip; 02-28-2009 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 02-28-2009, 05:23 AM   #25
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I really don't like this rule either. Having to find someone to pit for speed during qualifying is a pain. At most races....the hobby is supposed to be about having fun w/o making things more complex. In many case 1/8th scale guys pit for 1/10th guys during qualifying....and vice versa. Why do we need to make this more complicated?? If they really want to make the hobby better ......drop the carb restrictor size to 5mm , and be done with it. Our 1/10th motors are already ridiculously fast. Giving back 0.5 mm in carb size will gain at least 30sec of runtime. You will also have good bottom end....but the motor will not have quite the top end. This will cut back on the wear and tear on the motors, and reduce the speed of the cars so it's more about driving. 5mm carb restrictors are also easy to tech.
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:35 AM   #26
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If most nationals use 5 minutes and the Ifmar 10 minutes I must admit on EFRA level a 7 minutes qualify is a nice step in between but let it there!

I think most national competitions have difficulties to to fit it all in one day, for sure when tracks are under fire from the enviorment and only alow to make noise between certain times (as we do in Holland). They can not fit 7min qualify in the timetables unles you have to decrease the amount of drivers which is not healthy for the interest for the competition.

Reaching 5 minutes is a tough job today but if the famous 2013 exhaust can do it then there is still a job for the other manufacturers to study on exhausts. A next step going down to 16% or even less nitro also by getting stronger enviorment and anti terrorism laws will create longer runtimes and then is a possibillity to go back to 5 minutes.

And yes, I suspect there will be high tuned engines because they can....
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:29 AM   #27
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As most have said ,
You can look at it in many different ways.
I Bet the price of motors will rise in the near future.

All the R&D put into these motors to make 5 mins just went out the window. Now it's gonna be an all out mod war. & that will take MORE R&D. WHICH COST $$$$$. Which will be passed on to the consumers of the sport - hobby.

Not to mention .. I bet alot of new pipe designs will pop up as well.

what a great Idea to keep the cost down....
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:51 AM   #28
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Not to mention .. I bet alot of new pipe designs will pop up as well.

what a great Idea to keep the cost down....
It is depending how wise manufacturers will deal with it. If they come up with such a qualifying engine then yes, they can hit the market also. If they keep the secret for themself then no hurt is done because most self supporting racers still can not reach the level of the by the manufacturer sponsored drivers
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:39 AM   #29
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Since when is "lowering the cost of this hobby" a concern!! The price of fuel....kits plugs...tires...bodies....paint as well as other things has done nothing to help bring new blood into this hobby(nitro racing). The cream will always rise to the top as "talent with money" will rule the day. Oh yes occasionally the guy with limited funds will give the guys that have the unlimited tires and fast engines a run for their money......but it's business as usual for most of the time. I continue in this hobby for the love of competition...not for the thought that I will win a race......for most it's not realistic. The 7 minute qualifier has been used at CP for a few races and overall from what I heard many like it as it's more track time and it felt like you ran several lower mains in the day. I can see where in the future this will be the norm.....but as with other rulings many didn't like it but got used to it in time. My opinion.
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:24 AM   #30
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ahh the joy of a pit stop. that's good for the people who could never make five minutes.
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