R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-04-2004, 12:33 AM   #13501
B4
Tech Addict
 
B4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 642
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default Understeer Issues

Hi Guys,

I'm try to find the answer to my understeer issues with some success but it's now time to pick the brain of some people with more experience then myself.

I'm getting large amounts of understeer at corner entry "on power". Our track is fast but grip is low to medium. In my previous car dare i say it a V-One-RR Evo. I had fantastic corner entry speed.

My current setup is.
Ride height 6F / 6.5 R
Front r/c 2shims under (lowest)
Rear r/c standard
2mm droop rear
1mm droop front
Front ball diff medium
Rear diff loose to medium
Yellow springs front
Red springs rear
Front camber 2 deg
Rear camber 2.5
40 sh tires F/R

Tires are wearing even no coning on front or back. Front to rear wear is also equal at about 1mm over 30minutes of racing

Appreciate any pointers you can give me. This car has unbelievable potential.
B4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 02:39 AM   #13502
Tech Fanatic
 
Julius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Posts: 979
Default Re: Understeer Issues

Quote:
Originally posted by B4
Hi Guys,

I'm try to find the answer to my understeer issues with some success but it's now time to pick the brain of some people with more experience then myself.

I'm getting large amounts of understeer at corner entry "on power". Our track is fast but grip is low to medium. In my previous car dare i say it a V-One-RR Evo. I had fantastic corner entry speed.

My current setup is.
Ride height 6F / 6.5 R
Front r/c 2shims under (lowest)
Rear r/c standard
2mm droop rear
1mm droop front
Front ball diff medium
Rear diff loose to medium
Yellow springs front
Red springs rear
Front camber 2 deg
Rear camber 2.5
40 sh tires F/R

Tires are wearing even no coning on front or back. Front to rear wear is also equal at about 1mm over 30minutes of racing

Appreciate any pointers you can give me. This car has unbelievable potential.
Rear droop 2mm? How did you measure this? It shhould be between 7 and 9 if you measure like in the setup guide.

You didn't mention the body.

Is the problem entering fast corners where on entry you are still on throttle and let off after you turn in? It may help when you tighten the front diff a bit. Also you might try reducing rear toe-in. While driving have your pit man reduce rear-toe little by little and see how the car reacts.

Also using red front springs may get more initial steering. Playing around with the sway bars (stiffen the rear and softening the front) is worth a try. Even try running without the front bar!

Good luck
__________________
Team Serpent, Xceed, Sanwa, LRP
Julius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 04:07 AM   #13503
B4
Tech Addict
 
B4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 642
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default Re: Re: Understeer Issues

Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
Rear droop 2mm? How did you measure this?

I measured this perhaps incorrectly by checking the difference between the ride height and the amount i have to lift the car before the wheels are not touching.
Quote:
It shhould be between 7 and 9 if you measure like in the setup guide.

You didn't mention the body.
We can use any body, so I run the Frewer Lolleta. Tried the Mazda 6 but it is worse.
Quote:

Is the problem entering fast corners where on entry you are still on throttle and let off after you turn in?
It understeers on corner entry to the main straight (I have to lift slighty of the throttle to bring it back on line) than at the other end of the staight it should be a full throttle turn than hard on the brakes for a tight hairpin (for the corner at the end of the staight because the car rolls so well I have been able to lift before the corner, but this looses a couple of 10ths.
Quote:
It may help when you tighten the front diff a bit. Also you might try reducing rear toe-in. While driving have your pit man reduce rear-toe little by little and see how the car reacts.

Also using red front springs may get more initial steering. Playing around with the sway bars (stiffen the rear and softening the front) is worth a try. Even try running without the front bar!

Good luck
thanks for the help Julius
B4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 04:28 AM   #13504
Tech Initiate
 
Denso#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: broughty ferry,Scotland
Posts: 40
Default

On the subject of understeer i have foound that if you want to run a touring car type bodyshell as opposed to a wedge.
The frewer Ford falcon BA provides excellent front end grip as it has good downforce on the front end and overall is a very good shell for medium to fast track layouts.
I have attached an image for you to see.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image(080).jpg (51.0 KB, 131 views)
Denso#1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 10:33 AM   #13505
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 101
Default

My car has now good steering response, but my rear tends to slip out, on power, corner exit.. My rear diff is pretty loose , any ideas how to get the rear end to stick better?
Finken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:13 AM   #13506
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Herbie
The rear swaybar is at it's softest Lord D and the front at it's hardest.
Are you sure your rear sway bar mounting on the lower rear arm is in the inner part and not on the outer (stock)? Just thought to remind you if you overlooked this part. Inner mounting on the rear bottom arms with the ball cups mounted at the end of the bar is the softest setting.

Quote:
Originally posted by Herbie
Running allmost stocksetup but with the rear rollcenter upper inner and the rearshocks last hole up the shocktower( vertical shocks ) . front red spring rear yellow 4 holes all around. Think the irratic behavior comes from the to tight reardiff( initialsetting).
What shock oil weight is that? You could also try slightly more rear toe in to tame the rear.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:14 AM   #13507
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default Re: old impulse

Quote:
Originally posted by Marcos.S710
hey "D" i found this old picture with my old and reliable impulse ,
(damm i miss that car)
Marcos, that's an oldie goldie alright !
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:15 AM   #13508
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
I think the vertical rear shocks are the problem. Try them at the lowest position again.
Julius, I am currently using more vertical shocks on the 710 in the rear and as well as in the front. I found them to make the car very neutral and easy to drive.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:17 AM   #13509
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by KevinS
True.. true... Working with Ferrari would be like working with Serpent... what is left there for one to do?
So that means you'll start working for Mugen?

Hey, congrats on the graduation !
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:21 AM   #13510
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default Re: Re: Re: Vert interesting

Quote:
Originally posted by daniz24
Yeah, that and $100 a gallon fuel by Team Serpent Europe. Damn, RC is sooo cheap these days.... LOL
Do you believe whatever Palmaris Europe tells you?
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:24 AM   #13511
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Finken
My car has now good steering response, but my rear tends to slip out, on power, corner exit.. My rear diff is pretty loose , any ideas how to get the rear end to stick better?
Did you set the rear diff correctly? Did you check if the rear diff pulley does not slip? Try asking a friend to grab the two front wheels and hold them in position while you try to turn both rear wheels forward and see if the rear wheels can slip. If it slips, take the rear diff out and redo.

If the rear diff pulley does not slip, try playing with the antiroll bars. What are the front and rear antiroll bars set at the moment? Harden front (blades more vertical) and soften rear. Perhaps add a little more rear toe in.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:29 AM   #13512
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Finken
Hav gone for less caster(2mm in front) and 1.5 toe out, is there more i can do??
For more off power steering into corners, those adjustments would lead you into the right directions. You could also try the shock locations. More horizontal in the front or more vertical in the rear shock position.

If you're daring enough, you could also try raising the rear roll centers. Works for me.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:32 AM   #13513
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default Re: Understeer Issues

Quote:
Originally posted by B4
I'm try to find the answer to my understeer issues with some success but it's now time to pick the brain of some people with more experience then myself.
Julius has some right pointers about reducing rear toe in and tightening the rear sway bar (or reducing the front sway bar) to get more on power steering.

You could also try things like more front droop (try 2 mm chassis uptravel / lift instead of 1 mm), more caster angle (move clips to the front of the front upper arm), slightly thicker rear shock oil, more vertical rear shock mounting, softer front tires etc.

I have also tried changing the rear roll center to UTI / LT. It makes the rear of the car rotate easy and on power steering for me with the front ball diff was plenty. Remember that when you change the rear bottom arms from LB to LT, mind the placement of the DRS arm.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 11:41 AM   #13514
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default Re: Re: Re: Understeer Issues

Quote:
Originally posted by B4
I measured this perhaps incorrectly by checking the difference between the ride height and the amount i have to lift the car before the wheels are not touching.
Yes, this is another way of measuring droop. By doing this, you always maintain the same amount of chassis uptravel no matter what tire diameter you use and hence maintain consistant setup throughout.

Quote:
Originally posted by B4
We can use any body, so I run the Frewer Lolleta. Tried the Mazda 6 but it is worse.
Ummm, could it be too much rear downforce the shell is producing while accelerating? How much of rear wing strip is coming out of the shell on the rear of the Loletta? Try using smaller amount for less rear downforce. Or also if you can, try moving the shell forward a little like 2 to 3 mm, which you probably need 2 or 3 shells to test. The same also goes for the Mazda 6. Trim down the huge rear wing as the rear wing can induce a lot of rear downforce.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2004, 12:06 PM   #13515
Tech Fanatic
 
Julius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Posts: 979
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Finken
My car has now good steering response, but my rear tends to slip out, on power, corner exit.. My rear diff is pretty loose , any ideas how to get the rear end to stick better?
More rear toe-in,
Stiffer front diff
Lower rear roll center.
Less caster
__________________
Team Serpent, Xceed, Sanwa, LRP
Julius is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Serpent 705 J_Longbrake Nitro On-Road 4252 02-23-2015 12:34 AM
WTB: NIB Serpent 710 aN4rK1 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 3 06-16-2006 09:23 PM
Serpent 835 JFCJ R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 3 02-20-2005 09:29 PM
Trade in Your Old Serpent 710 Parts for New Serpent 710 Parts fast_it710 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 0 09-17-2004 12:27 AM
Serpent Impulse w/MT-12 and Serpent Starter box - cheap Solara R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 03-07-2003 03:01 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:20 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net