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Old 06-13-2004, 09:59 PM   #12511
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pyramid
You are posting right on the subject we about to experimenting. We do believe since S710 do not have True Ackerman, that is what you are having between on and off throttle. Again, we still doing some modification and will do testing this weekend.

You can experiment with the setups to gain more steering on throttle but we believe the results wont be linier to its off throttle.
So I guess this is an advantage the mugen has? adjustable ackerman?

Not intended in any bad way to the 710 I love the car so far, I am able to set it up to carry more corner speed than the mugens which currently dominate our track but when I do the car becomes a little "twitchy" or "unpredictable" and is hard to be consistent with.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:04 PM   #12512
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Originally posted by InitialD
Some comments with regards to the setup you listed which may solve your problem...

Try more front droop ! i.e. from +1 to 0 or even to -1.

Less rear toe in. i.e. from +3 to +2.5 or +2 per side.

Perhaps the rear shock is too soft? I have not used Trinity 55wt oil with 3 holes before. You may want to try to mount your rear shocks more vertical or try a red spring in the rear.

Try the above one at a time.

You mentioned about a rear blade type sway bar? Any pics? Where did you get it from? Thanks.
Thanks for the tips I will try them out wednesday at practice hopefully I can find a happy medium between "twitchy" and pushing.

The rear blade swaybar I believe was made by Art Carbonell it came with the car when I bought it (used)

I will try to post some pics but I first need to find the cable to hook my camera to the computer...I seem to have misplaced it as I am currently packing to move!

P.S. Do you think white springs would help at all being that this track is very "loose"? Maybe that would help with the "twitchy" feeling when I add more steering?
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:05 PM   #12513
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze
Not intended in any bad way to the 710 I love the car so far, I am able to set it up to carry more corner speed than the mugens which currently dominate our track but when I do the car becomes a little "twitchy" or "unpredictable" and is hard to be consistent with.
When is the car twitchy or unpredictable? Off power / on power, in the middle of the corner / exiting the corner / entering the crorner?
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:07 PM   #12514
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze
The rear blade swaybar I believe was made by Art Carbonell it came with the car when I bought it (used)
Cool.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze
I will try to post some pics but I first need to find the cable to hook my camera to the computer...I seem to have misplaced it as I am currently packing to move!
You're from Florida? Everybody seems to be moving in Florida. Looking forward to the pics.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:10 PM   #12515
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
When is the car twitchy or unpredictable? Off power / on power, in the middle of the corner / exiting the corner / entering the crorner?
Car is twitchy on power most noticeable mid corner but sometimes on corner exit as well, yet it pushes when first getting back on the power. I guess this might be some type of weight transfer problem?

Or perhaps just twitchy trigger finger LOL

P.S. Yep i'm from Florida, used to race with Art about 10 years ago or so then took a long vacation from the hobby and i'm just now getting back into it.

Things sure have changed alot since then!

Last edited by Brightbluehaze; 06-13-2004 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:33 PM   #12516
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze
Car is twitchy on power most noticeable mid corner but sometimes on corner exit as well, yet it pushes when first getting back on the power. I guess this might be some type of weight transfer problem?

Or perhaps just twitchy trigger finger LOL
I would suggest if those quick tips did not work, try and go back with the stock Serpent 30wt oil and start from there.

Perhaps try to put back the front sway bar and the stock rear sway bar and set it up as per the stock manual setting. Before you do that, perhaps you might want to record the current settings on the car before making changes to revert back to stock settings.

Drive the car and work from there and use the setup book provided with the kit to adjust what you want more or less from the car.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:37 PM   #12517
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze
So I guess this is an advantage the mugen has? adjustable ackerman?

Not intended in any bad way to the 710 I love the car so far, I am able to set it up to carry more corner speed than the mugens which currently dominate our track but when I do the car becomes a little "twitchy" or "unpredictable" and is hard to be consistent with.
You should have said it compared to Xray a lot of people hates mugen in this thread

Nervous on mid cornering, try to have more front drop and softer dampening all around. But if other cars can do it at hard dampening system, why not the serpent? that why we takes the modification further to test new ackerman on S710.. results may be nothing but one must do it before judging!
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:43 PM   #12518
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze
P.S. Yep i'm from Florida, used to race with Art about 10 years ago or so then took a long vacation from the hobby and i'm just now getting back into it.
Lucky you, you are racing with the greatest guy!
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:44 PM   #12519
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze
Car is twitchy on power most noticeable mid corner but sometimes on corner exit as well, yet it pushes when first getting back on the power. I guess this might be some type of weight transfer problem?
Most handling problem is caused by this word "Weight Transfer" either too much or not enough.
For your problem, you must define/divide in two stage.
When you said going pushing to the wall, is it means
-Front tires slides, just like understeer symptom?
if this is the case, then your outside (mostly front) is not having enough transferred weight.
-Rear tires slides or kicking out, just like oversteering.
More complex, besides weight issues, could be because the clutch kick to much/late or your diff is acting like solid axle.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brightbluehaze

P.S. Yep i'm from Florida, used to race with Art about 10 years ago or so then took a long vacation from the hobby and i'm just now getting back into it.

Things sure have changed alot since then!
Then you have one of the best RC Guru in the world.

I believe "more complex" is more correct word since people always want more and more.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:58 PM   #12520
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
No. Did not. But I thought Goldfinger measured and found that the inside and outside tires having different angles when mounting the steering linkage on top or below (as per manual) the steering servo saver...
On top, is having bigger ackerman angle (in and out difference is bigger) good on very "dead" slow corner.
On below(std), more conservative to compromising sweeper and low speed corner.
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Old 06-13-2004, 11:01 PM   #12521
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoldFinger
On top, is having bigger ackerman angle (in and out difference is bigger) good on very "dead" slow corner.
On below(std), more conservative to compromising sweeper and low speed corner.
What we trying to do now is, making another hole in steering block.
Oh, God! I hope Rene is not mad at us.
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Old 06-13-2004, 11:19 PM   #12522
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Duh, I am an idiot LOL, just took apart the shocks to check them and one of the e-clips from the top of the piston had come loose on the front left shock so there was no dampening! This explains the erratic behavior due to "weight transfer"!

Rebuilt all the shocks and will test again without changing anything on Wednesday at practice. The car was absolutely planted in the main today but I cartwheeled after clipping one of the discs in the middle of the track. I guess this is when the unpredictable behavior started to occur.

I checked over the car several times and couldnt find anything wrong but never actually disconnected the shocks to check them until just now.

Anyway I am very happy as I believe the car will now once again be on rails as it was in the main before my highspeed acrobatics!

Will post again the results after practice on Wednesday!

Thanks for all the good advice as it gave me some things to think about as far as fine tuning the car as well!
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Old 06-13-2004, 11:20 PM   #12523
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Originally posted by InitialD
Ummm, Sow&Steady mentioned that the tires need a little warming up before traction comes up. It could be due to that. Besides, the best brand of tire does not have 45 shore rear tire.
For those reason, the Bridgestone powered car never made an awesome start and always slow on 1-2 laps after tire replacement.
And if we taking Montreal GP result as a example, 1 factor that could makes the Reds win is 2 pistop instead of 3
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Old 06-13-2004, 11:21 PM   #12524
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Well, I took a few pictures...some of them very crappy .

Here is the "double slot" that I put in the diff, combined with the longer pins in the rear dogbones (next post) and some grease on the pins, the new slots held up great and showed no wear whatsoever. This is probably the worst of my pics, but you can get what I'm talking about.
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Old 06-13-2004, 11:22 PM   #12525
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Here is a rear dogbone equipped with a new, longer pin on one end.
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Last edited by Arun; 06-13-2004 at 11:30 PM.
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