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Old 06-13-2004, 04:09 PM   #12481
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Yes, the wheels on my 710 does not turn fully to the left / right when I turn my steering wheel on my 3PK.

I use to set my left / right wheel steering lock to about 20 ++ degrees on the Hudy setup when I first set the car after the build. That was with 90 odd percent on the dual rate. I'm now down to 50 to 60%. I have not checked how many degrees that translates on the Hudy though.
D, sounds to me this is primarily due to the fact that you run softer shores up front compared to rear. I tested this set-up before dismantling the car for service during one of the heats in the last race. To my surprise, while it feels great and planted with lots of steering during warm up and practice, it was not the best for the heat.

Of course this has a lot to do with the rest of the car's settings since not all on mine was exactly the same as yours. What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference in driver's behaviour and style of driving while driving around alone and that during a heat or a race. No matter how hard I try to be smooth, I inevitably end up making some undesirable steering movements that got me feeling the rear end to be on the loose side. Driving or more precisely, racing style, will have a role in the situation where you have such controller steering-to-cornering relationship.

My 2 racings cents worth ... and damn, that M.Schumacher is really good!
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Old 06-13-2004, 05:13 PM   #12482
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Sow,
I read that article with the fuel cap mod.
Does anyone know if the Mugen fuel cap (H0864) will work on the 710 tank?
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:10 PM   #12483
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Default Re: FISH TAILing REAR and its solutions.....

Quote:
Originally posted by mop_iko
last saturday i ran my 710. GOT a bit TWITCHY at the rear wheel. FISH TAILing all the way... coz we played at the new track... still have a lot of dust.

one of the racer there do something to his 710 also. i asked him how to go about the problem.... how to make the FISH TAILing rear becomes planted on the dusty surface.

he mentioned this to me:

1) he will make the shock softer by using the 5th 'click' for the damper.
2) he will change to WHITE spring (softer than yellow spring) if necessary.
3) he will increase the ride height so that the car have more ...... emmmm.... roll more so the tyre will be more planted.
4) he will put MORE TOE in for the rear tyre so that he will have more responsive/faster cornering.
5) finally........ emmmm... AARRRRRGHHHHHHHH i forgot!!!! shucks!


so.... after that i didnt do anything to my car.... becoz i am confused. WHICH ONE OF THOSE setup need to be done FIRST and so on..... which one comes first and second and third and so on?

and anybody help me to give the fifth or the sixth way to reduce FISH TAILing REAR wheel on a dusty / low traction surface.

thanks!


mop
The white springs work AWESOME in low traction. When traction rises, I switch to yellow springs.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:13 PM   #12484
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Quote:
Originally posted by B4
Good point about the roll centres as i haven't tried that yet.
If you have a lot of traction and the track is smooth and flowing, you might want to try the highest roll center in front (i.e no shims under the front arms to angle the front arms more) and UTI / LT insert combo in the rear. I think Julius tried it and found it nice. I tried it and I found the car to have lots of steering and responds very fast.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:13 PM   #12485
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Quote:
Originally posted by crashed_1
20 only?...Wow, I've got mine to 25.
You are right. I checked my previous post and I set it up to max which was 26 degrees. I believe That was with the travel set to 120% on the 3PK and the dual rate up to 90 odd %.

I'm now at about 50 to 60% on TT with oneway and with front diffs. I don't know what that translates to. On tight tracks like Atria, I would increase it slightly more like up to 70%.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:16 PM   #12486
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Default Re: Re: FISH TAILing REAR and its solutions.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Proficar403
The white springs work AWESOME in low traction. When traction rises, I switch to yellow springs.
That's what I heard some have tried. I found yellow to be very forgiving on the 710 unlike the heavier 705. Using red springs on the 710, you need reasonable traction with lower shore tires.

What I also found is that the car works very nice when the shocks are stood up more. This is on yellow springs.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:16 PM   #12487
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Weight imbalance

Quote:
Originally posted by Pyramid
If you tweak your car using shock collar method
I never got mine more than 1 or 2 round difference. More or less about the same number of round turns on the shock collar left and right, back and front.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:18 PM   #12488
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Default Re: FISH TAILing REAR and its solutions.....

Quote:
Originally posted by mop_iko
last saturday i ran my 710. GOT a bit TWITCHY at the rear wheel. FISH TAILing all the way... coz we played at the new track... still have a lot of dust.
Firstly, I hope your rear diff was set correct and the screw inside is tight enough that it does not slip. Also, the shock lenghts are correct and that there is no TWEAK ! Else, whatever you do, the rear end will still fish tail. If you're only using rear ball diff, the rear end will fish tail towards the right side if the rear diff slips.

After that is sorted out and the car still fish tails on power, then it looks like it's too much on power steering. Follow what crashed_1 has suggested to you. Stiffen the front sway bar. Making the rear sway bar softer (like what crashed_1 suggested by putting the sway bar on the inner hole on the bottom arm) also helps. It's all relative. You could also use less caster angle (more clips at the back of the front upper arm) will help lessen on power steering. Not too much. Else the car will be twitchy on the straights.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:19 PM   #12489
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pyramid
Be aware when running softer front. If the track/tarmac temp for the whole final is not changing fast (within 15degree C) it is ok. Otherwise, when temp greatly change, between softer and harder tires will react vice versa at different temperature... much differently until it remind me driving my 705 for the first time
During my testings, I have run it on hot and cooler evening weathers... It seems pretty consistant. Could your problem be related to the type and brand of tires?

Quote:
Originally posted by Pyramid
Just another healty-meaning different point of view.. at that much DR, it might be ok when maintainning enough speed on corner but it defenetely suffer on low speed and or off throttle. Try to make 180 going out from the pit lane.
At 50 to 60% dual rate, I never had problems when the servo is too slow for me. I think that's because my hand is too slow for the servo. And the only thing I keep chanting to myself is Sow & Steady, Sow & Steady, Sow & Steady...

Quote:
Originally posted by Pyramid
With the above point in mind, I always use 90-100% DR. As of my 3PK, if I use 100% DR, it would leave my EPA to only 95 before the servo start to make sound since L/R radius on the car already at its max point..
Yes. I notice that when I set mine to 120% on EPA and I end up with 90 odd % to get the steering to full lock at 26 degrees.

Quote:
Originally posted by Pyramid
D... I tought you are using Helios.. I'm just about to try it because I find it lighter than the 3PK since I always get spiderweb above 30mins mark
So M8 is out of the question for you then.

No, I wish I had the Helios like somebody else. I think you got me confused with that guy.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:22 PM   #12490
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Quote:
Originally posted by Palmaris Europe
Less steering will do the exact same as more steering.

With more steering when you go into the corner the front end slides away from the apex giving the feeling the car has little steering. By reducing the throw and using smaller controlled inputs on the steering the car will turn in a lot faster and carry more speed while at the same time reducing the overall tire wear.
Yup. That's correct. Team drivers usually do not lock the steering too much as the bigger angle the steering locks, more speed is scrubbed away. For me, I have to physically limit the amount of travel on the wheel of the 3PK. I should in fact only turn a little but the hand is still a little shaky with little controlled inputs.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:24 PM   #12491
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Quote:
Originally posted by PSI Racing
Does anyone know if the Mugen fuel cap (H0864) will work on the 710 tank?
That's asking for trouble ! I guess you need to check if the spring, the clips, the tank mouth opening etc is the same as the 710 tank.

I saw that mod first in Thailand. I did it on mine when I first got the kit. It has been OK and engine tuning is pretty fine and no problems on fast right hand or left hand sweepers.



I think Brian Berry also did this on his 950R.
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:34 PM   #12492
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weight imbalance

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
I never got mine more than 1 or 2 round difference. More or less about the same number of round turns on the shock collar left and right, back and front.
1 full round would equal to about 0.5mm away which means your that side of the spring being compress more
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:37 PM   #12493
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Could your problem be related to the type and brand of tires?
I`m running the best one
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:40 PM   #12494
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Team drivers usually do not lock the steering too much as the bigger angle the steering locks, more speed is scrubbed away. (
Now still doing some testing on this one on Goldfinger`s car. No, not on less DR subject since I believe if other car can do it, why not S710
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Old 06-13-2004, 08:46 PM   #12495
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Quote:
Originally posted by Palmaris Europe
Less steering will do the exact same as more steering.
Please give us more info on how would you expect the turning radius be the same (at the same speed) with let`s say DR at 60% compared to DR at full 100% while other thing being unchanged. Maybe I miss something about it. Thanks
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