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Old 03-14-2004, 05:33 AM   #5851
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Quote:
Originally posted by crashed_1
Why is that?...
I guess when your tires get smaller, your chassis uptravel gets less. Braking generally becomes better with less chassis uptravel but then you need to factor in inconsistant rear tire wear during a long main which makes braking somewhat difficult...
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:51 AM   #5852
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
I guess when your tires get smaller, your chassis uptravel gets less. Braking generally becomes better with less chassis uptravel but then you need to factor in inconsistant rear tire wear during a long main which makes braking somewhat difficult...
I think it has to do with rotational mass. Smaller wheels should brake or lock easier because of its diameter if im not mistaken.
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:08 AM   #5853
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Today at the track I ran with my old tires with no problem but after switching to 37 shores all around my car was flipping like crazy. Made the rear sway bar firmer but still no success. Maybe its due to the new thread but who knows. Guys there tell me 37 shores has too much grip for the high bite track. Most guys use 42 or even 45 shores. Finally put on some red springs which helped a bit but was still flipping. Put back on the old tires that were 70% worn which ran good without any problems. Now I thought it might be the 37 shore tires that was the problem so I went and bought a set of 42 shores. Still flipping! Didnt do any setting changes the whole day. So I know my problem is not my settings but maybe the new tires? The only thing I did was made sure the ride height was the same 6mm front and back every time I swapped tires. Im hoping its because alot of guys were running today and there was nitro fuel all over the tracks which makes it stick even more. What gets me thinking is I see guys go pretty dam fast in their cars and I dont see them flipping, at least not at the turns I flip. You will be amazed at how I can flip at such slow speeds. At times I was doing 2 wheel wheelies on its sides Does droop have any affects when changing new tires? I notice new tires do not have as much tire contact as well, which can also be the problem. Maybe I need some blue springs Anyone have problems with their cars flipping when running new tires on high bite tracks? Bad day at the track
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:11 AM   #5854
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Hey Dino, it was good to see you again today I will try out the piston hole change you mentioned today Stop eating that "binglang" stuff man. That thing will kill you! Wait ...I gave it to you! haha
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Old 03-14-2004, 10:03 AM   #5855
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Quote:
Originally posted by cyba888
Anyone have problems with their cars flipping when running new tires on high bite tracks? Bad day at the track
Doesn't anyone at your track able to help you out and give you suggestions? I think this was covered before and if I'm not mistaken, I replied to your same question about traction roll about a few pages back !

Anyway, use the setup book provided to the fullest. It is one of your best guide to troubleshoot your car.
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Old 03-14-2004, 11:04 AM   #5856
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Quote:
Originally posted by cyba888
Today at the track I ran with my old tires with no problem but after switching to 37 shores all around my car was flipping like crazy. Made the rear sway bar firmer but still no success.
What diameter were the new tires?
Large tires will flex more = flip more.

Firming the rear sway bar makes things worse as you decrease rear grip = more turn in = more flipping.
Changing to a lower front roll center is more productive.

Only lowering the ride height is not enough when changing tire sizes. You'll need to adjust the downstop as well. Every mm tire size change = 0.5mm downstop change.

Actually I try to get a setup that works with new down to small tires without changing spring or downstop settings. This makes for a good car during finals and long runs. I've posted my setup I'm currently using in Heemstede on Mytsn.
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Old 03-14-2004, 11:49 AM   #5857
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Hi Julius,

Are the 40 shore tyres working really well, or are people generally using them just for testing - i.e. so the tyres don't wear so quickly.

I see so many setups where 40s are used.

Longing for the chance to test my 710 No engine; no servos and the circuit can't be used until the bahndienst is finished in two weeks
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Old 03-14-2004, 01:33 PM   #5858
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Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
Hi Julius,

Are the 40 shore tyres working really well, or are people generally using them just for testing - i.e. so the tyres don't wear so quickly.

I see so many setups where 40s are used.

Longing for the chance to test my 710 No engine; no servos and the circuit can't be used until the bahndienst is finished in two weeks
The 40's are working well. Probably 37's would give slightly quicker times but thay are gone in about 35min on our track. Probably good in qualifying but for the moment I'm looking into setups for long runs. When the temps go up I'll go testing with 42 and possibly 45 to see what happens.

Compared to the 705 it seems you can get away with using at least one step harder tires to get the same grip levels.
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Old 03-14-2004, 01:40 PM   #5859
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Thanks for the info - I think I'll be ordering some 40s!

As a matter of interest, how long are the 40s lasting from new?

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 03-14-2004, 02:13 PM   #5860
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Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
Thanks for the info - I think I'll be ordering some 40s!

As a matter of interest, how long are the 40s lasting from new?

Cheers, Mark.
We'll I true them to 63.5 in the rear and 63 in front to start at the moment, and run them to 56mm and that takes about 50 - 55 minutes on our track that is quite abrasive.

I change left to right about halfway, If you don't you're looking at about 45 minutes before the outside get's too small. You could of course reset the ride height and run them a little smaller but That is not something I want to do as it would compromise the objective of the test (finding a setup that works with big and small tires)
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Old 03-14-2004, 02:20 PM   #5861
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Sounds good!! Thanks.
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:36 PM   #5862
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Quote:
Originally posted by cyba888
Today at the track I ran with my old tires with no problem but after switching to 37 shores all around my car was flipping like crazy. Made the rear sway bar firmer but still no success. Maybe its due to the new thread but who knows. Guys there tell me 37 shores has too much grip for the high bite track. Most guys use 42 or even 45 shores. Finally put on some red springs which helped a bit but was still flipping. Put back on the old tires that were 70% worn which ran good without any problems. Now I thought it might be the 37 shore tires that was the problem so I went and bought a set of 42 shores. Still flipping! Didnt do any setting changes the whole day. So I know my problem is not my settings but maybe the new tires? The only thing I did was made sure the ride height was the same 6mm front and back every time I swapped tires. Im hoping its because alot of guys were running today and there was nitro fuel all over the tracks which makes it stick even more. What gets me thinking is I see guys go pretty dam fast in their cars and I dont see them flipping, at least not at the turns I flip. You will be amazed at how I can flip at such slow speeds. At times I was doing 2 wheel wheelies on its sides Does droop have any affects when changing new tires? I notice new tires do not have as much tire contact as well, which can also be the problem. Maybe I need some blue springs Anyone have problems with their cars flipping when running new tires on high bite tracks? Bad day at the track
hehehe.....Don't cry man. You are no the only one. Have you saw mine 950R flipping out and sticking on the railing? That just is real f**king damn catastrophe.....

Our track has extremely well traction and high speed. And almost U-turns all over there. You may need to use brake "before" you enter the high speed corner to let your car slow down a bit. Have you saw a F1 without using brake then rush into the backstraight end corner? Only A.Senna dare to do that but....

Touring car flipping is not thing special. When next time you see three 1/8s entering the corner at the same time and all flip out toghther,you will stop crying and start to laugh. Wanna to see that? Join the next sunday race. Only NT$500 entry fee but you will learn more and fast. I can help you to setup your car. (But you need to occupy a seat for me that we can sit together. I always wake up too late... )

Listen to Julius's and Paolo M's suggestion,they are real team drivers. Don't listen to me,I may know engine but don't know car set-up.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:36 PM   #5863
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
We'll I true them to 63.5 in the rear and 63 in front to start at the moment, and run them to 56mm and that takes about 50 - 55 minutes on our track that is quite abrasive.

I change left to right about halfway, If you don't you're looking at about 45 minutes before the outside get's too small. You could of course reset the ride height and run them a little smaller but That is not something I want to do as it would compromise the objective of the test (finding a setup that works with big and small tires)
Julius
Many setups (including default and your setup in mytsn) for 710 let the car “pulling” (less than 1 mm difference between from and rear tires). Under what conditions would you use a “pushing” tire setup (more that 1mm difference). Maybe it is not recommended at all?

I noticed in your setup that you still use a 6mm ride height (as in default setup) front and rear, but with bigger tires compared with the default setup. That means that you are using less spring preload. It also means that ride height when tires get to 56mm is 6mm - (63-56)/2 = 2.5mm!!. How flat is your track?
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:58 PM   #5864
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Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
Changing to a lower front roll center is more productive.
Shouldn't that be changing to higher roll center instead of lower roll center in the front to lessen the front grip?

Quote:
Originally posted by Julius
I've posted my setup I'm currently using in Heemstede on Mytsn.
Great ! I will take a peek at it? How was your run last weekend? Good weather?
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:04 PM   #5865
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fernando_M
Many setups (including default and your setup in mytsn) for 710 let the car “pulling” (less than 1 mm difference between from and rear tires). Under what conditions would you use a “pushing” tire setup (more that 1mm difference). Maybe it is not recommended at all?
You would want to start with slightly larger tires to get about the same tire diameter in the middle of a long race.

Using larger rear tires (more than 1 mm difference) on the stock internal ratio would generally make the car push on power but you get more off power steering into corners.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fernando_M
I noticed in your setup that you still use a 6mm ride height (as in default setup) front and rear, but with bigger tires compared with the default setup. That means that you are using less spring preload. It also means that ride height when tires get to 56mm is 6mm - (63-56)/2 = 2.5mm!!. How flat is your track?
All I can say is probably Julius is trying to make his chassis into 3 mm thick instead of stock 4 mm?
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