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Old 10-03-2005, 06:00 AM   #22426
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Originally Posted by markp27
What did you mean there, Goldfinger, with the 960?

My setups tend to use very hard springs these days with the 710. Quite often I have been running the purple front springs with blue rears and a pretty hard front anti-roll bar. For whatever reason, this seems to give me more steerting, as strange as it may sound.
Certainly at the reacent EFRA GP in Rosenheim, my car just wouldn't steer when I adjusted the front anti-roll bar from 45 Degrees to 0 Degrees.....quite the opposite of what you'd normally expect.

Cheers, Mark.
Hi Mark, do you mean with stiffer Front spring your car gives more steering ?
very strange ..

In stock 960, Front is twice harder than rear spring. For my personal experience, the car has a lot of steering and some of my fellows had try the car and yes.. huge amount steering.
Yesterday i watch the pyramid 960 , the front upper arm is so horisontal. Thats why when cyclops said they modded so the arm and the aim is to make it more horisontal.... I guess "the man" is trying to create more and more steering in 710. I think especially in mid corner.

But a photo will describe it better.. is it ?
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:08 AM   #22427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldFinger
Hi Mark, do you mean with stiffer Front spring your car gives more steering ?
very strange ..
Yes, that's what I mean. Very strange indeed Goldfinger, but something worth trying. Maybe it is connected with the new chassis, but it does work really well, I find.
It doesn't work on all circuits, but it is very interesting to play about with.

Quote:
In stock 960, Front is twice harder than rear spring. For my personal experience, the car has a lot of steering and some of my fellows had try the car and yes.. huge amount steering.
Yesterday i watch the pyramid 960 , the front upper arm is so horisontal. Thats why when cyclops said they modded so the arm and the aim is to make it more horisontal.... I guess "the man" is trying to create more and more steering in 710. I think especially in mid corner.

But a photo will describe it better.. is it ?
Interesting - a photo would be very good though
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:15 AM   #22428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markp27
Yes, that's what I mean. Very strange indeed Goldfinger, but something worth trying. Maybe it is connected with the new chassis, but it does work really well, I find.
It doesn't work on all circuits, but it is very interesting to play about with.
Probably the track that 'work' has more traction so harder spring side actually push down the weight more efficiently..
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:20 AM   #22429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid
Probably the track that 'work' has more traction so harder spring side actually push down the weight more efficiently..
Certainly the track has to have a certain amount of grip already - but it is interesting that we go in this direction, whereas other cars remain relatively soft. As long as it works, though
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:29 AM   #22430
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Yeah, i've noticed this weekend that harder front springs are 'oke' to use for 'more' stearing.. witch really suprized me.... stanley bauwer explained the car rolls more and slower with softer springs, and that's why harder springs give a little more stearing (it's more direct)...

Then, we power-out of a corner, with the diff in the rear being quite tight, the car seems to slide out and car seems to turn even onpower.... that's what i think happens, could be wrong...
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:21 PM   #22431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cyclops_
Yeah, i've noticed this weekend that harder front springs are 'oke' to use for 'more' stearing.. witch really suprized me.... stanley bauwer explained the car rolls more and slower with softer springs, and that's why harder springs give a little more stearing (it's more direct)...

Then, we power-out of a corner, with the diff in the rear being quite tight, the car seems to slide out and car seems to turn even onpower.... that's what i think happens, could be wrong...
Another explanation maybe the car is bottoming during braking/deceleration because the spring is too soft and cause understeering. With harder spring you will get faster response and feels like it has more steering. Some people fine tuned with steering exp from the radio and also with D/R and EPA combination.
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:59 PM   #22432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markp27
Certainly the track has to have a certain amount of grip already - but it is interesting that we go in this direction, whereas other cars remain relatively soft. As long as it works, though
Yess... agreed as long is it work, it doesn't matter.
Quick question : you are using longest rear upper arm ?
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Old 10-04-2005, 07:03 AM   #22433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldFinger
Yess... agreed as long is it work, it doesn't matter.
Quick question : you are using longest rear upper arm ?
Depends upon the track, sometime short, sometimes long.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 10-05-2005, 02:30 AM   #22434
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Hi guys,

what conditions favor using longer or shorter rear upper link
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:50 AM   #22435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cyclops_
He ain't old... he's cool, he still manages to talk to the ppl and give hints and tips, i always learn something when talking to him...

They front arms... the rollcenter is changable now on the s710, there are 3 options, low, mid and high... The changed it so that it goes even higher, so more spacers below the radio plate.. this will give the upper arm a more horizontal position.... it's not that special i gues...
Hi cyclops, do you mean more horizontal upper arm just like the attached picture ?
Attached Thumbnails
Serpent 710-hrzupparm.jpg   Serpent 710-frspacer.jpg   Serpent 710-rrspacer.jpg   Serpent 710-stdvscut4mm.jpg  
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Old 10-06-2005, 01:56 AM   #22436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldFinger
Hi cyclops, do you mean more horizontal upper arm just like the attached picture ?
That's it dude...
Does it work?

Nitro season is over here.... i only need to clean if or the pics and then the s710 is locked up, and the xray m18 coms out... i'm happy with the m18, but i do feel i need to do more with the s710, but that's over
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Old 10-06-2005, 02:09 AM   #22437
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More roll = less flip now as MarkP pointed out, a lot of times we get something working without knowing/care why

Get yourself the new NT18 for Christmas
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Old 10-06-2005, 02:15 AM   #22438
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Originally Posted by _cyclops_
That's it dude...
Does it work?

Nitro season is over here.... i only need to clean if or the pics and then the s710 is locked up, and the xray m18 coms out... i'm happy with the m18, but i do feel i need to do more with the s710, but that's over
I didnt had a chance to test it yet. This Saturday will do and let you know the result.

Looks very aggresive.. but, back while i driving electric car and set the car at longest and (most)paralel geometry. The car had a tendency to push on mid corner. Funny, cause thats what i need to get rid on my 710..
Maybe since i was using UBO-LT at back, result would be different.

One more thing, when your 710 has lowered deck (DTS ver.) you need to cut the upper susp holder by 6mm.
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Old 10-06-2005, 04:18 AM   #22439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid
More roll = less flip now as MarkP pointed out, a lot of times we get something working without knowing/care why

Get yourself the new NT18 for Christmas
i'm only buying a carbon chassis for the m18, and that's it... want to save some money, i'm still on school and stuff
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Old 10-06-2005, 04:22 AM   #22440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldFinger
I didnt had a chance to test it yet. This Saturday will do and let you know the result.

Looks very aggresive.. but, back while i driving electric car and set the car at longest and (most)paralel geometry. The car had a tendency to push on mid corner. Funny, cause thats what i need to get rid on my 710..
Maybe since i was using UBO-LT at back, result would be different.

One more thing, when your 710 has lowered deck (DTS ver.) you need to cut the upper susp holder by 6mm.

Well, i think the front and rear roll center needs to be combined to get the best balance in the car... i nearly never change the rear roll center (Too little track time to test that stuff, still nearning the other basic stuf...)...

but, since serpent is testing the new rear uprights, maybe it's the combination that's best....also, don't forget that it's an option to change, and an option to change to less good :P
I realy thing the roll center stuff is for the die hards in this sport, i'm leving it as is for a while
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