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Old 02-21-2005, 08:32 PM   #20221
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Originally posted by redsand



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Old 02-22-2005, 12:42 AM   #20222
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Default Winternats Setup

Mark, I just stumbled upon your setup sheet posted on mytsn... To better make myself more prepared <cough> or others who show interest but nevertheless can give you a no show at the end of the day, could you guide us how and what you did what you did to arrive at that setup? Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:34 AM   #20223
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Default Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Mark, I just stumbled upon your setup sheet posted on mytsn... To better make myself more prepared <cough> or others who show interest but nevertheless can give you a no show at the end of the day, could you guide us how and what you did what you did to arrive at that setup? Thanks.
You're preparing yourself for a no show

In essence the setup will be similar to Rene's, as I asked quite a bit of advice from him.
To give you a run down, I started on the first day with a setup which was a mixture of MS's from last year and Julius' Lux setup.
I changed the front diff to a one-way after the first session, as I couldn't get the diff to work at all. The one-way was really good with drag brake, but the track wasn't so driveable on the first day due to very little grip.
On the second day, I started to traction roll and I found a couple of problems with the setup, so I changed to a solid diff. This proved to be better, but the car was still trying to roll off power - on power was no problem whatsoever.
After talking to a guy called Steve Brown, it looked like my suspension wasn't working too well, so I rebuilt my shocks with 35W oil and 2 holes all round. On the bench, the suspension moved a lot better and looked more stable.
On the track however, I was still battiling with traction roll off power.
I could see through the fast sweeper why I was traction rolling off power and not on power. Under power, the front inside wheel would lift off the ground which caused the car to understeer slightly and then when I released the power, I could see that the rear inside wheel would also lift off the ground and I believe this excessive weight transfer was causing the car to roll
I could also see this effect when lifting the front and rear corners of the car on the bench, so I adjusted the downstops in order to make this less pronounced.
Unfortunately I had very limited track time - simply as I was working by myself in the main, so I couldn't really try out the things I was changing so well.

It was only at the end of the second day of qualifying that I found the big mistake which I had made. Althought the traction rolling was better, it was still present after all the changes I had made - Rene had suggested opening the front shock fully and setting the rear shocks to one hole of the softest setting.
I had made the changes and again the effect wasn't what I had expected - at this point I wanted to put my car through tech inspect to see if all the dimensions of the car were ok. I asked the guy to check the tracking width to see if I was inside the limit - I was shocked when he said I had about 4mm spare at the front All the time I had been running with the front end set to 196 or 197mm!!!!! No wonder I was traction rolling.
Quickly I set about changing the front tracking to 200mm - the change was brilliant - no more traction rolling and the car was stable.
I had by now changed back to the diff, which I prefered to the locked one-way - if not for anything else, as it was stronger - I had already destroyed a one-way out-drive
By this time, there was no way I could try anything else out before my last two qualifying sessions, so I basically took the shock positions and rear roll bar advice from Rene.
The setup worked very well and I was able to do some really good laps at first - 14.4 to 14.6 at first, I think. But then I had problems with traffic and my body work got stuck under the rear wheel. As that happened the anouncer had said I was on for a 20 lapper in 5:05 The body work cost me at least 13 or 14 seconds and I finished the session with 19 laps at 5:01 or so.

In my last qualifying session the e-clip came off my car right at the start and it couldn't be replaced in time

I was happy with the setup which I had got to and for the final, I mounted the rear wing further back, as it was suposed to be more stable.
Indeed the rear wing change was very good, but engine problems didn't allow me to see how good it could have been.

This will definately be my start setup for next year, but I may revert back to the one-way and drag brake.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:56 AM   #20224
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Default Re: Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
You're preparing yourself for a no show

In essence the setup will be similar to Rene's, as I asked quite a bit of advice from him.
To give you a run down, I started on the first day with a setup which was a mixture of MS's from last year and Julius' Lux setup.
I changed the front diff to a one-way after the first session, as I couldn't get the diff to work at all. The one-way was really good with drag brake, but the track wasn't so driveable on the first day due to very little grip.
On the second day, I started to traction roll and I found a couple of problems with the setup, so I changed to a solid diff. This proved to be better, but the car was still trying to roll off power - on power was no problem whatsoever.
After talking to a guy called Steve Brown, it looked like my suspension wasn't working too well, so I rebuilt my shocks with 35W oil and 2 holes all round. On the bench, the suspension moved a lot better and looked more stable.
On the track however, I was still battiling with traction roll off power.
I could see through the fast sweeper why I was traction rolling off power and not on power. Under power, the front inside wheel would lift off the ground which caused the car to understeer slightly and then when I released the power, I could see that the rear inside wheel would also lift off the ground and I believe this excessive weight transfer was causing the car to roll
I could also see this effect when lifting the front and rear corners of the car on the bench, so I adjusted the downstops in order to make this less pronounced.
Unfortunately I had very limited track time - simply as I was working by myself in the main, so I couldn't really try out the things I was changing so well.

It was only at the end of the second day of qualifying that I found the big mistake which I had made. Althought the traction rolling was better, it was still present after all the changes I had made - Rene had suggested opening the front shock fully and setting the rear shocks to one hole of the softest setting.
I had made the changes and again the effect wasn't what I had expected - at this point I wanted to put my car through tech inspect to see if all the dimensions of the car were ok. I asked the guy to check the tracking width to see if I was inside the limit - I was shocked when he said I had about 4mm spare at the front All the time I had been running with the front end set to 196 or 197mm!!!!! No wonder I was traction rolling.
Quickly I set about changing the front tracking to 200mm - the change was brilliant - no more traction rolling and the car was stable.
I had by now changed back to the diff, which I prefered to the locked one-way - if not for anything else, as it was stronger - I had already destroyed a one-way out-drive
By this time, there was no way I could try anything else out before my last two qualifying sessions, so I basically took the shock positions and rear roll bar advice from Rene.
The setup worked very well and I was able to do some really good laps at first - 14.4 to 14.6 at first, I think. But then I had problems with traffic and my body work got stuck under the rear wheel. As that happened the anouncer had said I was on for a 20 lapper in 5:05 The body work cost me at least 13 or 14 seconds and I finished the session with 19 laps at 5:01 or so.

In my last qualifying session the e-clip came off my car right at the start and it couldn't be replaced in time

I was happy with the setup which I had got to and for the final, I mounted the rear wing further back, as it was suposed to be more stable.
Indeed the rear wing change was very good, but engine problems didn't allow me to see how good it could have been.

This will definately be my start setup for next year, but I may revert back to the one-way and drag brake.

Cheers, Mark.


nice and long read,mark
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:59 AM   #20225
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Phew!...Mouthful. Nonetheless, exciting. Wish we were there. Somehow it felt exactly like how we felt at the Nitro Tour event.

Lots to learn.
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:59 AM   #20226
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Default Re: Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
You're preparing yourself for a no show
<cough> No comments. <Looks to Onkel Sow !>

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
I asked the guy to check the tracking width to see if I was inside the limit - I was shocked when he said I had about 4mm spare at the front All the time I had been running with the front end set to 196 or 197mm!!!!! No wonder I was traction rolling. Quickly I set about changing the front tracking to 200mm - the change was brilliant - no more traction rolling and the car was stable.
Hey, did Onkel Sow pass my SMS to ya? I thought I mentioned about the trackwidth and set it back to 200 mm when you're using the front diff...

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
In my last qualifying session the e-clip came off my car right at the start and it couldn't be replaced in time
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:01 AM   #20227
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Default Re: Re: Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
<cough> No comments. <Looks to Onkel Sow !>
Sideways glance
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:03 AM   #20228
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Quote:
Originally posted by crashed_1
Phew!...Mouthful. Nonetheless, exciting. Wish we were there. Somehow it felt exactly like how we felt at the Nitro Tour event.

Lots to learn.
Yeah but luckily neither of us had to do it alone... Imagine crashing, reparing and running after your car on the track all alone...

<trumpet mode on> I'm very thankful to have a very reliable pit monk... opphs, wingman with me. <trumpet mode off>
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:04 AM   #20229
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Default Re: Re: Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Hey, did Onkel Sow pass my SMS to ya? I thought I mentioned about the trackwidth and set it back to 200 mm when you're using the front diff...
The good fellow did just that - the thing was, I was positive I had it at 200mm, so I didn't check it I was in a bit of a panic, so I wasn't thinking too straight
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:07 AM   #20230
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
The good fellow did just that - the thing was, I was positive I had it at 200mm, so I didn't check it I was in a bit of a panic, so I wasn't thinking too straight
Well, I guess we know what you mean... Too much booze the night before...
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:07 AM   #20231
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Quote:
Originally posted by crashed_1
Phew!...Mouthful. Nonetheless, exciting. Wish we were there. Somehow it felt exactly like how we felt at the Nitro Tour event.

Lots to learn.
It was hard, especially as it was only the second race which I have ever taken part in - it was pretty much overwhelming. I didn't take part in quite a few practice sessions, as it was just too busy or the 1/8ths were also out at the same time.

But next year I will have my own pit monkey
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Old 02-22-2005, 02:07 AM   #20232
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Well, I guess we know what you mean... Too much booze the night before...
Ehm swoosh!
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Old 02-22-2005, 07:59 AM   #20233
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Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
It was hard, especially as it was only the second race which I have ever taken part in - it was pretty much overwhelming. I didn't take part in quite a few practice sessions, as it was just too busy or the 1/8ths were also out at the same time.

But next year I will have my own pit monkey
Mark....you should have ask for help

It's tough practicing with the 1/8. I preferred it when it was controlled practice.
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Old 02-22-2005, 08:52 AM   #20234
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Winternats Setup

Quote:
Originally posted by markp27
The good fellow did just that - the thing was, I was positive I had it at 200mm, so I didn't check it I was in a bit of a panic, so I wasn't thinking too straight
I know how you feel. At the state race in Ft. Meyers, my first ever state race, Paolo gave me some info on rear toe. So that night I brought the car into the room and went over my setup according to what he told me. My final qualifier was the 2nd to go the next morning so I didn't bother with practice. I really didn't want to break anything. I ran the car and it was all over the place. I managed to finish the qualifier without crashing but there was definately something wrong with the car. I thought I broke a shock, lost a dog bone or something... As it turns out I had 1 rear wheel with 3 degrees of toe in, as I wanted, and the other had almost 1 degree. I was positive I had set both wheels to 3. And "no" I was not drinking that night.
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Old 02-22-2005, 09:12 AM   #20235
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Quote:
Originally posted by JustRace
Mark....you should have ask for help

It's tough practicing with the 1/8. I preferred it when it was controlled practice.
Mistakes of a race virgin

A 1/8th rear ended me and that put me off any of the subsequent session - luckly only a shock was broken, but it may have been worse.
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