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Old 11-05-2008, 10:21 PM   #16
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Very interesting I think my problem is that I am way too rich on the LSN, and running at 194 I think there is much more in those motors.But the other dow side is tht I am running .8mm head clearence and 25% nitro on a #6 plug It sems that my combination are all wrong. We dont get good fuel around here too so next time out I will mix my own. Using Benol and KL-200 and Nitro and Meth from Grace Chemicals so then I can mix to 30% what does the xtra 5% give you, runs cooler I take it?

By the way 3mm SWB on rear of Mugen is a killer
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:01 AM   #17
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Very interesting I think my problem is that I am way too rich on the LSN, and running at 194 I think there is much more in those motors.But the other dow side is tht I am running .8mm head clearence and 25% nitro on a #6 plug It sems that my combination are all wrong. We dont get good fuel around here too so next time out I will mix my own. Using Benol and KL-200 and Nitro and Meth from Grace Chemicals so then I can mix to 30% what does the xtra 5% give you, runs cooler I take it?

By the way 3mm SWB on rear of Mugen is a killer
I would not touch the low end until your satisfied with the top end. Remember the H.S.N. controls all fuel flow threw the carb. So if you lean it your leaning the bottom as well. Watched a million people become lost with there carb settings because of this. One thing at a time.
I'm assuming .8mm is the thickness of the stack of head shims? To measure head clearance you need to squish a piece of small dia. solder between the piston and the head button and then measure the solder.
The extra 5% gives you less run time, more power out of the corner, a hotter running engine(this effects head clearance) when tuned correctly.
What fuel can you get your hands on?
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:28 AM   #18
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No its not the stack its the clearence measured with solder I think in imperial its 0.028 inches. The fuel I will be running is 5% benol, 5% Thechniplate and a choice between 25 and 30 nitro. But it seems a hotter engine is not an issue. we dont get any good fuel here so this is the only way to go, I have farely decent mills and dont want to use fuel that i am not perfectly sure what is in it.

OK so get my top end sorted and then richen up bottom end. Tell me when LSN is too lean do you loose your punch? I feel I am starting to understand how to get faster. think I am OK with the clutch, will try out the red shoe next time out, the track is tight so always on a quest for punch

Thanks MugenDrew
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:00 AM   #19
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I would not touch the low end until your satisfied with the top end.
Be carefull with this. If the LSN is to rich and you let people only adjust the HSN they can to to lean on topspeed without noticing it because they want to correct the rich bottom with the HSN.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:07 AM   #20
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So how would I be able to get a good tune then? Is there a reasonable way to get in the ball park and fine tune on the track. This is assuming that my fuel and clutch are good, correct clearence and correct plug? Talking about plugs when would I choose a long body over a short, I just put in what is available which is geberally a long body. We run in sub tropical wheather so humidity is high.

Thanks Roelof, liked your machining on your eagles head, I am going to try it, just a little nerveous as once its done its done. And trashing my Eagle or Murnan Plus does not excite me

Thanks guys for the responses I have learnt more on these threads in 1 month than 3 years of racing
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:21 AM   #21
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I am busy to set it in a diagram, a rough example:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/ft...torgrafiek.bmp
(toeren = rpm , tijd = time)

The green line is ideal settings
Red line is to lean on the HSN
Gray line is to lean on the LSN (but can be also be to lean on the HSN)
Blue is to rich on the HSN
orange is to rich on the LSN

If you have a long straight eventually the RPM will stay on a constant level and regarding the sound, smoke and temp you can see if it is right. With the orange line you can see the constant level of rmp is not reached and at the end it is not clear to notice if the engine goes to lean.

Regarding the eagle, a new buttonhead will cost you about 15 dollar.....
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:18 AM   #22
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Yes, the old artificially rich low end masking the overly lean hsn. Warning sign; It goes VERY lean towards the end of the tank and most of the time the engine will stop running before the tank is empty.
Lean on the low end; when you let off of the throttle going into a corner you will hear the engine running at a very high rpm, when you swing in the pits the engine will race for quite sometime before settling down to a normal RPM. When you open the throttle you will see no smoke as the engine accelerates. Yes if it's lean enough it may bog.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:06 PM   #23
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The thing with most Nova onroad motors is (at least in Mugens) that they will usually hesitate if even a little too lean on top. The good old lean bog means richen the top end until it stops bogging. Then if it still acts rich, lean the bottom.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:46 PM   #24
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The best way to find the limit at the LSN with fast motors is adjust it in the air. When you go leaner and reach a point the engine makes hickups in the air going from idle direct to full throttle then on the ground it must be OK. This is beacuse in the air the acceleration is quicker than on the ground and so there is the difference/limit between following and no following of the fuel supply.
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Old 11-06-2008, 02:32 PM   #25
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Thats good news, I run on a short tight track so I am safe on my rods, but do rods just go or do they give you some sort of warning before. I also have a JP eagle so I am safe on all Nova motors at 330. Going to lean the crap out of my motors the raceday. I will be more confident to do so with home brewed fuel. What motors do you guys run at the moment?
you have to be carefull though. If you lean the motor out to much it will overheat and lose power. you have to find that fine line.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:15 PM   #26
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The best way to find the limit at the LSN with fast motors is adjust it in the air. When you go leaner and reach a point the engine makes hickups in the air going from idle direct to full throttle then on the ground it must be OK. This is beacuse in the air the acceleration is quicker than on the ground and so there is the difference/limit between following and no following of the fuel supply.
interesting. lean the LSN to the point when it just staggers a little, i will try that.

there is another condition that i get where the idle has 3 speeds. get the engine warmed up real good and it comes off the track at a high idle, 5-10 seconds it drops to a medium idle, then 4-5 seconds later it drops to a low idle. i think that i have always been too rich on the LSN?
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:35 PM   #27
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Yep it sounds like the botton is too rich.Lean the bottom out some and compensate with the idle.Do this procedure till it revs fast and idles perfectly.I set my lowspeed and highspeed so it is so rich it barely runs.Spitting fuel out the exhaust on idle and will barely rev.Then lean on the hsn till it revs quick.Then set the low speed.Like I stated above.Then just play with the needles till you feel that you get the best combination of power and runtime.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:12 AM   #28
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An engine can always lower the idle when you come in and let it on idle for a while. On idle the engine will cool down a bit what will create a tighter fitting of the piston, the resistance will slow down the piston and so the idle.
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:58 AM   #29
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The best way to find the limit at the LSN with fast motors is adjust it in the air. When you go leaner and reach a point the engine makes hickups in the air going from idle direct to full throttle then on the ground it must be OK. This is beacuse in the air the acceleration is quicker than on the ground and so there is the difference/limit between following and no following of the fuel supply.
Dont you run lean when you start tuning your car on the box, in the air? I am assumimg that the temps on the box are much lower so when you bring the motor up to temp it starts leaning out.
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:02 AM   #30
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you have to be carefull though. If you lean the motor out to much it will overheat and lose power. you have to find that fine line.
Geez mate you run your motors at 330 it must be one realy fine line
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