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Old 11-03-2008, 03:55 PM   #16
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Mr. Baar & Mr. Salvin good to know that you're still Base out of Holland. Manufacturing out of Asia. Business is business.Many American business gone to Asia and Mexico, For cheaper labor. Couple of American auto manufacture has done gone into China for manufacturing parts. If Europe is in the same boat as America, it's bad all over.

Last few months we been waiting on parts for Serpent , knowing you're sending equipment to your Asia plant. And maybe you'll be up to parts availability or all, and new models, Distributer of parts in your region are hurting. When thing are 100% it will be better.

Serpent is long for models out there and the perfection of each model and design. Don't that the level you're at would change.

The bad thing about the asian market, are they use Child labor. If Serpent uses child labor would change my respect for there product, as of WalMart items.
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Old 11-03-2008, 04:10 PM   #17
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Serpent is now owned by Chinese people now?
Owned by Hong Kong World Model.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:17 PM   #18
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If import duties are applied, and OSHA type safety is implimented, the asian market would no longer appeal to the profit mind. Large business is always about bottom line profit and the employees health and liveable income are only another liability to big business. If product can be made with child and or slave type sweatshops, that's what money hungry greed will do to make more money.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:18 PM   #19
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Blee: I heard that too. But who can confirm? Does Serpent people will work along with Chinese people??

I think it is demand and supply. American are so cheap that's why Wall mart, Ebay is doing so great. They only want cheap price products. If it is cheap, it must be bad quality. This is for sure. You want the quality of make in Japan, or USA while the price of made in China price. This is impossible. You have to get used to use low quality product because of the price you pay.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:30 PM   #20
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If import duties are applied, and OSHA type safety is implimented, the asian market would no longer appeal to the profit mind. Large business is always about bottom line profit and the employees health and liveable income are only another liability to big business. If product can be made with child and or slave type sweatshops, that's what money hungry greed will do to make more money.
This is true but I submit that it can be controlled and is ultimatly dictated by the consumer. If the American market refused to purchase the cheaper import items, things would certainly change (change-I have learned to dislike this word as of late) and American manufacturing would rebound.

wouldn't hold your breath though..

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Old 11-03-2008, 06:33 PM   #21
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If import duties are applied, and OSHA type safety is implimented, the asian market would no longer appeal to the profit mind. Large business is always about bottom line profit and the employees health and liveable income are only another liability to big business. If product can be made with child and or slave type sweatshops, that's what money hungry greed will do to make more money.
and if the communist government would not subsudize all of their products to make them cheaper than everyone elses.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:20 PM   #22
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Blee: I heard that too. But who can confirm? Does Serpent people will work along with Chinese people??

I think it is demand and supply. American are so cheap that's why Wall mart, Ebay is doing so great. They only want cheap price products. If it is cheap, it must be bad quality. This is for sure. You want the quality of make in Japan, or USA while the price of made in China price. This is impossible. You have to get used to use low quality product because of the price you pay.

Why need to confirm? It is an open secret in Hong Kong.

If you still like their stuff, just contiune to buy and play their stuff. If you do not, you may switch to other brands. For me, I do not care who made it if the quality is good.

Good China stuff are not cheap actually..... I knew that very much since I am in manufacturing industry.

The only problem is people in other countries think China could provide cheap stuff........ they do....... but the quality is bad if buyers do not want to pay. Just like toys have Lead issue last year. Factories did know they use lead paints, since buyers cut down the cost and forced them........... Factories have to survive and used cheap material to manufacture the products. Finally, we have tons of Lead crap in states. Actaully all money earned away by US big Enterprises, not China Factories at all....... we, US consumers always buy craps with higher price.

Actually I had switched to other brands since I knew they moved to China many years ago. My last one is 705. I did not think their quality is bad..... the reason I do not buy theirs anymore because they lost the European Spirit. This is the most important thing to me. Just like peope go to buy a MB or BMW, everybody would want those are made in Germany..... however those parts are made in China too....... Now, I just wonder Ferrari have how many China parts.....

I also believe that X brand stuff are made in China right now........ otherwise, how to cover the team drivers and advertisements cost..... Beside, you could see those 08 copycat, if China factory doesn't have the blueprint, howcome they could produce an identical car.

Good luck and enjoy. Whatever you like or not, China is World Factory...... however, our United States is still World Market at least.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:50 PM   #23
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American are so cheap

If americans were as cheap as you say, we would all be driving some no name made in Taiwan car that runs on Energizer batteries. Instead, most of us run Mugen, Serpent, Xray, Kyosho, Novarossi, JP, Max, Picco, Sirio, KO Propo, Airtronics, JR.... These are not cheap items. Since we are discussing the hobby world here, your comment has no merit. And, I think when given the choice between 2 hobby shops carrying the exact same items, a person from any country would be an idiot if they didn't compare prices.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:08 PM   #24
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X brand stuff have long been made in china / hong kong...
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Old 11-04-2008, 12:03 AM   #25
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X brand stuff have long been made in china / hong kong...

China made is not a big deal nowadays........ just depends on people' thinking.... whether a $500s China made car is worth to buy, people would find out once they open the box.

For me, since those big brands lost their original spirit, I would not touch again even the design and quality are good. On the other hand, it's not guaranteed I spent $500s and it would bring me a trophy (World Race is a good example). I rather go to Tower Hobbies to buy those REAL Taiwan made and China made stuff..... at least I could have fun with less spending.

It is quite boring now, everything is made in China and came from one factory and with different brands of sticker...... (as brushless ESCs and motors)......... really boring......... Is that stuff made in USA, Germany or Japan etc. cannot sell anymore because of higher manufacturing cost........ I really have no clue......
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by JetMD View Post
If americans were as cheap as you say, we would all be driving some no name made in Taiwan car that runs on Energizer batteries. Instead, most of us run Mugen, Serpent, Xray, Kyosho, Novarossi, JP, Max, Picco, Sirio, KO Propo, Airtronics, JR.... These are not cheap items. Since we are discussing the hobby world here, your comment has no merit. And, I think when given the choice between 2 hobby shops carrying the exact same items, a person from any country would be an idiot if they didn't compare prices.
Mugen, Serpent, Xray, Kyosho, Novarossi, JP, Max, Picco, Sirio, KO Propo, Airtronics, JR are just small business. Please don't use those for an example (why don't you use Porsche or Bentley and say American are so willing on spending). How many American go buy Xray, Novarossi? Properly less them 0.001%?
Wall Mart is huge, why it has so many business? Because it sells cheapest items. What else???
Honestly, I would not always compare price now. When I was student, I'm forced to do price comparison. Now, no need. When people can afford to buy first class airplane ticket, you know what I mean. And I don't consider those people is idiot I truly believe.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:00 AM   #27
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Quote:
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If americans were as cheap as you say, we would all be driving some no name made in Taiwan car that runs on Energizer batteries. Instead, most of us run Mugen, Serpent, Xray, Kyosho, Novarossi, JP, Max, Picco, Sirio, KO Propo, Airtronics, JR.... These are not cheap items. Since we are discussing the hobby world here, your comment has no merit. And, I think when given the choice between 2 hobby shops carrying the exact same items, a person from any country would be an idiot if they didn't compare prices.

I would never say Americans are cheap. I would rather say, Americans tend to spend much more than they can realistically afford.

IMHO, the average American has just not much to spend.
I lived in the US for ten years and when I compared my income with that of my racing buddies, I always wondered how they did it. Even when they had 2 jobs or more.

Funny thing about your country is, how thinly spread the wealth is and how many really poor suckers are the first to raise the flag when the rich people decide to go to war......
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:32 AM   #28
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I would never say Americans are cheap. I would rather say, Americans tend to spend much more than they can realistically afford.

IMHO, the average American has just not much to spend.
I lived in the US for ten years and when I compared my income with that of my racing buddies, I always wondered how they did it. Even when they had 2 jobs or more.

Funny thing about your country is, how thinly spread the wealth is and how many really poor suckers are the first to raise the flag when the rich people decide to go to war......
Yea, not much to spend making American to have choose Wall Mart in order to make RC running.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:47 AM   #29
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No matter how many times i read that last post, i still cant figure out what it says.

Cheap labour doesnt always mean poor quality at all. Car manufacturers produce cars in countries like Slovakia, China, Czech Republic for cheap labour but the cars still come out well enough to pass a manufacturers strict quality control tests. Hell, BMW even use America to produce the Z4 range.

RC cars arent a hard thing to make if you have the right equipment which the factories do so i dont see it as being a problem at all. Its not like each car is a hand crafted sculpture where there are many production variables and the top end cars all come in kits so its up to you to decide what the build quality is!
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:52 AM   #30
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He he, I worked in Spartanburg from 1995 - 2004 and I could write a book about what it took to get that BMW plant work in a way it was supposed to work.

It took almost 2 years to get the quality of the Z3 somewaht close to BMW standards.

A lot of manufacturers and Tier 1 suppliers are currently considering, moving their productions back to Germany and other countries, because ofconstant quality problems.

If you have to make 10 parts to get one good one, cheap labour doesn't pay off too well.


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No matter how many times i read that last post, i still cant figure out what it says.

Cheap labour doesnt always mean poor quality at all. Car manufacturers produce cars in countries like Slovakia, China, Czech Republic for cheap labour but the cars still come out well enough to pass a manufacturers strict quality control tests. Hell, BMW even use America to produce the Z4 range.

RC cars arent a hard thing to make if you have the right equipment which the factories do so i dont see it as being a problem at all. Its not like each car is a hand crafted sculpture where there are many production variables and the top end cars all come in kits so its up to you to decide what the build quality is!
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