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Old 09-04-2003, 11:33 PM   #46
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Nice run SuperK

Looks like you've got your MTX3 dialed Good job!
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Old 09-04-2003, 11:35 PM   #47
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TSR6, the larger bearings used directly on the one-way shaft. Mine, and a few others were metal sheilded.

Perhaps they made a running change, and you snagged some rubber shielded bearings??

Let me see if I have a pic of my MTX3 with a good shot of the bearings.

Edit* mmm unfortunately I don't have a pic where you can really see the bearings, but check my snap of my MTX3, and look where the arrow points .. its those bearings that are metal shielded.

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Old 09-04-2003, 11:35 PM   #48
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Gary: If you decide on the MTX-3, I can help you with setting the car up for you since your located in the Bay Area. I practice at Lemann Raceway in Fremont, Cal. Just ask for me if your there. The car is pretty easy to set-up.
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Old 09-04-2003, 11:47 PM   #49
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I'm almost positive mine are rubber shielded.. I may be wrong. I'd have to look at it to be sure, but I cant remember any metal shielded bearings off hand.
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Old 09-04-2003, 11:48 PM   #50
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Thanks... .... I think the car is a bit under steer.... THis main started late and the track was cooing down. SO.. i think that cost me a bit of scrub on my turn.... All and all ..!! the car run great!!
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Old 09-04-2003, 11:48 PM   #51
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SuperMugen ...

I post about anything that I don't like about the kits for others to read; big whup.

You know what I don't like about the NTC3?

The cheap AE screws it seems they chose to use, how easy it is to snap the stock bumper, how easy it is to snap the shock towers, how the gas tank needs some work to help smooth the flow of gas, how they skimp out and don't include a full bearing set -albeit they do include manifold and exhaust which is awesome- and how the stock steering linkage can change toe a good 4 degs on each wheel because of the slop.

Its not just Mugen buddy. Its anything I find a problem with; which it seems there are alot of with these kits. I happened to rant first about Mugen, because of the Hellion thread.

And no, I didn't read every single post in that thread ... I couldn't be bothered; it pissed me off just reading it.
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Old 09-04-2003, 11:56 PM   #52
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TSR6 ... perhaps I had a very early revision kit or something?

I had metal shielded bearings up front, and metal shielded bearings on the bellcranks as well. Did you have full set of rubber sealed bearings?

Also when I built the kit, one of the included bearings for the bellcrank was crud to begin with ... I noticed my steering linkage had a weird 'gritty' and noticeably rough spot when I turned a certain direction. I didn't know what the heck was wrong until I took out the bearings and turned them on the tip of a pencil and found one of them and an imperfection in the ball, and it looked like the ring that holds the balls in place was a little bent as well. As soon as I replaced that, it was fine.

I tried to contact Mugen support ... and yeah, got the runaround from the LHS, and also could not get through to MugenRacing. Which is why I posted my experience .. and well as you can imagine, buying yet another Mugen kit and having another weird experience.

In that kit, I had to install the bushings opposite to everybody else for the hinge pins -which was VERY odd-, and the problem with the flimsy side guard recessed nut holders. Other than that though, I really like the MBX5 ... much better IMO than the K2 when compared side by side for design.

Anyways .. yeah, I did indeed receive metal sheilded bearings up front.

SuperK, regardless that was a good run on that track; very tight layout ... looks like fun for sure You got hacked a couple times as I could see a few of the other guys were losing their rear -or pehaps just out of control hehe-

Btw, yeah I noticed the car had a little bit of understeer offpower or on low speed corners as well when I ran it ... just a setup thing I'm sure
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Old 09-05-2003, 12:33 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by chorner
TSR6 ... perhaps I had a very early revision kit or something?

I had metal shielded bearings up front, and metal shielded bearings on the bellcranks as well. Did you have full set of rubber sealed bearings?

Also when I built the kit, one of the included bearings for the bellcrank was crud to begin with ... I noticed my steering linkage had a weird 'gritty' and noticeably rough spot when I turned a certain direction. I didn't know what the heck was wrong until I took out the bearings and turned them on the tip of a pencil and found one of them and an imperfection in the ball, and it looked like the ring that holds the balls in place was a little bent as well. As soon as I replaced that, it was fine.

I tried to contact Mugen support ... and yeah, got the runaround from the LHS, and also could not get through to MugenRacing. Which is why I posted my experience .. and well as you can imagine, buying yet another Mugen kit and having another weird experience.

In that kit, I had to install the bushings opposite to everybody else for the hinge pins -which was VERY odd-, and the problem with the flimsy side guard recessed nut holders. Other than that though, I really like the MBX5 ... much better IMO than the K2 when compared side by side for design.

Anyways .. yeah, I did indeed receive metal sheilded bearings up front.

SuperK, regardless that was a good run on that track; very tight layout ... looks like fun for sure You got hacked a couple times as I could see a few of the other guys were losing their rear -or pehaps just out of control hehe-

Btw, yeah I noticed the car had a little bit of understeer offpower or on low speed corners as well when I ran it ... just a setup thing I'm sure
My first MTX-3 kit came with rubbered sealed bearings for the one way.. that was like the 1st batch
My 2nd MTX-3 kit came with metal sealed bearings.. that was a latter batch.. so i guess yeah Mugen did made some changes..
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Old 09-05-2003, 02:06 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vinyard
My first MTX-3 kit came with rubbered sealed bearings for the one way.. that was like the 1st batch
My 2nd MTX-3 kit came with metal sealed bearings.. that was a latter batch.. so i guess yeah Mugen did made some changes..
mine are metal shielded bearing..
but honestly, i dont think there's a noticeable difference in terms of performance unless you are comparing a full set of metal sheilded bearings agaist full set of Ceramic Nitride Bearings...(drooling) whoa..i havent finished talking and i am already drooling..
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Old 09-05-2003, 02:58 AM   #55
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for competition purpose, metal seal carry high rotation speed as there is less friction between the seal vs the bearing. the purpose of rubber seal is for dust proof.
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Old 09-05-2003, 06:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by chorner
out of the bag and used them as is too. I'm sure everyone did; unless they replaced the bearings from the get-go. Thats a no brainer. So what was the point in mentioning that? The stock bearings aren't all that great; perhaps if you don't know better you never will? Oh well.

As for the manual, it will do ... but nothing special, and certainly is lacking in any descriptions or 'tips' in particular to the kit. Even somebody whose not a newbie appreciates that. Such as in the AE manual, all the little things count. I didn't have any trouble building the kit; except for the fact that I put thread-lock on some of the pivot balls for the steering linkage ... perhaps a drop too much? Either way, good luck getting those suckers off :P You have to push a pair of needle nose pliers under the plastic ball and and yank pretty hard to pop it out of the ball. This isn't a bad thing though, just an annoyance when you want to clean the balls and ball ends after they tend to get a little sticky after a while when small amounts of dust work their way between the ball and plastic ball end.
Bingo. Your main problem was just bolting all the parts, not assembing them. When I'm assemble a car I took care of many little details (bearings degreased and lightly oiled, deburr moving parts and other things). Isn't so much time spent compared with directly bolting parts, but main difference is when you go to the track, one car works from the start and other needs to be disassembled many times to correct 'bolting glitches' rather than assembly glitches.

Manual isn't the best of the market, but when I buy a car I buy for the quality of their craftman, durability and performance, not just on how looks the assembly manual (hey! Mugen manual probably aren't as fancy as others, but their drawings are self explanatory, for some people stinks, but make their mission, have a reference on how assembing the car, not teaching you on how to dial and setup your car).

Regarding the annoyance of popping out balls, simply: don't do it, grab your dremel and do a cut on the lip of the balls to make possible to put a straight screwdriver on the ball and simply remove the screw that captures. I'll guarantee much less slope.

As I answered on the MTX3 thread I had the two cars, and I choose MTX3 instead NTC3, make your own choose and stop the rants.
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Old 09-05-2003, 07:15 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by fastharry
Its my opinion that,like baseball teams,not every car is as bad as everyone says,or as good as everyone says...
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally posted by fastharry
I race against the 3's all the time..they run strong,I'll tell you that..
Exactly.


We run a V-One RR Evo and the Mugen's are very competative.
My driver has driven one and loved it but I've never maintained one.
That would have to qualify as unbiased, at least.


Harry,

On the carb . . . I reckon, take the engine apart and get the crankcase in a wooden jawed vice - carefully. You may as well take it apart now as you really can't be sure there isn't metal fragments inside the engine already.

Inject some engine oil or something into the carb holder from inside the engine - it might not get past the O-ring from the outside. With one hand, start twisting back and forth gently (but pulling firmly) while keeping the bolt loose with the other - you don't want to build up any more of a ridge inside the holder. I reckon it will come out eventually after you've worn the ridge down enough. Good luck with it.

. . . and get some practice tuning those RB's - life is too short - you need to get out of your OS comfort zone.
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Old 09-05-2003, 10:35 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Corse-R
Bingo. Your main problem was just bolting all the parts, not assembing them. When I'm assemble a car I took care of many little details (bearings degreased and lightly oiled, deburr moving parts and other things). Isn't so much time spent compared with directly bolting parts, but main difference is when you go to the track, one car works from the start and other needs to be disassembled many times to correct 'bolting glitches' rather than assembly glitches.

Manual isn't the best of the market, but when I buy a car I buy for the quality of their craftman, durability and performance, not just on how looks the assembly manual (hey! Mugen manual probably aren't as fancy as others, but their drawings are self explanatory, for some people stinks, but make their mission, have a reference on how assembing the car, not teaching you on how to dial and setup your car).

Regarding the annoyance of popping out balls, simply: don't do it, grab your dremel and do a cut on the lip of the balls to make possible to put a straight screwdriver on the ball and simply remove the screw that captures. I'll guarantee much less slope.

As I answered on the MTX3 thread I had the two cars, and I choose MTX3 instead NTC3, make your own choose and stop the rants.
I'm usually pretty careful to deburr everything myself actually, not even from a performance standpoint .. just from asthetics. It looks like you don't know what the heck you're doing if you don't trim all the excess plastic from the parts

With respect to my main problem with "bolting the parts" I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean, but I think I have the idea. The little things, like the pivot balls on the steering linkage for example ... I knew that it might be a pain to get them off if I used threadlock on them, but at the same time I was worried they may fall off. It would be cool if the instructions had little tips about the small things like that, it would help from making stupid mistakes when you're so excited to build the kit at like 3am in the morning! haha

Cool thing about the MBX5 though, is they made the pivot balls with a hex slot in the top of the balls, and made the picot ball itself threaded like a screw on the bottom! Thats something that I really liked, and when I was building my MTX3 I couldn't understand why they didn't do something like that on the MTX3. Anyways, its cool ... you can use your cross wrench to hold the lock nut and tighten it at the bottom while you put your 1.5 or 2.0mm hex wrench in through the top of the pivot ball.

I think the steering linkage balls from the MBX5 might be able to be used on the MTX3 ... would be great

And you're right, and I agree with you .. I also don't buy a kit based on how good the manual is, thats just ridiculous; who does that? I of course buy the kit based on apparent quality. Its just when I build these kits, I always find things that could be improved and that I think are stupid ideas .. just the way I am. I wouldn't think of taking my dremel to the top of a pivot ball though like you mentioned haha, its a good idea ... but I wouldn't want to cut up my brand new pivot ball :P

Man, I should make you guys a list of the things I would like to see improved on the MBX5 :P You guys would think I'm nuts! haha
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Old 09-05-2003, 10:37 AM   #59
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btw, fastharry .... for your carb problem, could you not dissasemble it completely minus the carb; then heat up the crankcase to operating temp, then grab ahold of it with some pot holders or baking gloves, and slowly twist out the carb?
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Old 09-05-2003, 10:55 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by chorner
The little things, like the pivot balls on the steering linkage for example ... I knew that it might be a pain to get them off if I used threadlock on them, but at the same time I was worried they may fall off.
pivot balls falling off is not little things

Last edited by Data; 09-05-2003 at 11:49 AM.
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