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Old 07-28-2008, 02:41 PM   #1
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Default Can a NitroTC-3 front end be Overdriven??

On most belt driven 1/10 scale belt drive cars like the Serpent 720 you can overdrive the front end by having a oneway diff and changing the tire diameter ( smaller tires on front ) or putting different pullies on the side. I noticed that Associated offers a one-way diff for the front but putting one of those on is not going to make the front end overdriven will it?? Because the front end is driven at the same speed the rear end is because of the shaft drive and the same size pinion and spur gear for the front & back diff on the associated. Even if you have a oneway diff on thefront and you put smaller diameter tires on the front because the front is not geared to be overdriven the effect the tired would make would be very, very minor. What do you guys think?? I don't believe a Nitro TC-3 can actually be overdriven like a belt car can.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:13 PM   #2
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When people set there cars up with 'overdrive' they are doing the oposite of what you describe. When Serpent 720 drivers run smaller fronts, they are also changing pulleys to drive the front axle faster to compensate for the smaller front tire. Most setups will have equal drive or a small amount of overdrive (1%-3%). The setup you describe would be 'underdrive' at the front. Add a one-way to that equation and you have a two wheel drive car (until traction is lost, which will be as soon as you apply throttle comming out of a corner).
One benefit of the setup using overdrive/small front tire combination is, the abillity to slam the body lower in the front. You can run overdrive in your tc3 by running slightly larger front tires. You can add the one-way to increase off-power steering, at the expense of braking abillity.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:42 PM   #3
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By the way I ran my old serpent 1/8 scale vector the way I described with smaller front wheels oneway diff and never lost any traction in the corners, in fact I hardly slowed up for the corners the front end pull me thru the corners. I did mention changing the pullies in my comment above but I quess you missed that . But my main question was if you could actually achieve overdrive with a Nitro TC-3 since it is shaft driven and the pinion and spur gear for the front and rear have the same amount of teeth. The pullies on the side of most belt caars allow you to alter the front drive ratio making it overdrive or underdrive you can't alter the front and rear drive ratio on a NitroTC-3. And how would you determine how much bigger your front tire would need to be to achieve overdrive and would the larger tire give you as good of a overdrive ratio you could obtain with the pullies like on the belt car??

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Old 07-28-2008, 09:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by duneland View Post
... You can run overdrive in your tc3 by running slightly larger front tires. You can add the one-way to increase off-power steering, at the expense of braking abillity.
Ron has said it exactly (see quote above).
Because you don't have pullies on the NTC3 you have to run bigger tires in front. You have to do transmission calculations to determine the tire size you want to run. Particularly you need to know what your transmission ratio is in the NTC3. You can find most of what you are looking for here
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:19 PM   #5
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What if you get a custom set of gears made pinion, spur that would give you a slight overdrive??
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:36 PM   #6
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Since the front end of a NTC3 is the same as the rear I don't see you achieving any over or under drive unless you change tire diameter. I don't think it's feasable to seek out someone to make custom gears. But do what ever floats your boat
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:56 PM   #7
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If the gears cause the front end to turn over a little faster than the rear then you overdrive .
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:19 PM   #8
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If the gears cause the front end to turn over a little faster than the rear then you overdrive .
Only because i've raced the tc3 for a long while....I'm going to tell you, the pinion/diff gears are already a weak link. They melt, strip, and just wear out. if you insist on messing with internal gears, look for metal ones. Search around for BrentDavis. he was able to mod the Ofna tc3 clone metal gears.
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:25 AM   #9
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I know that this is a bit on the same subject, I ran the NTC3 for about 3 years, running it on an oval at very high speeds. I never told anybody, but I had a guy in a machine shop that actualy made my gears out of steel. He was able to cut a set of gears for me one time that I used for over 2 years that was a different pitch so that I had overdrive in the car. If you are lucky enough to find a person who knows what they are doing, you can ask them to cut a gear for you but you need to use it in the rear of the car, it won't take the hits. I can't remember for sure, but there was two extra teeth in the big gear and the smaller gear for the shaft was stock but I used the smaller gear from the front diff after it was worn a little bit so it would mesh better with the new gear with more teeth. It would wear out after about 2 weekends and I had to replace it because of the different metals, but it worked out that the car was over driven by 4% in the front that way.

So yes, it can be done, but it will cost a bit unless you have a friend in a machine shop that is good with micro machining
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Baedarlboo View Post
Only because i've raced the tc3 for a long while....I'm going to tell you, the pinion/diff gears are already a weak link. They melt, strip, and just wear out. if you insist on messing with internal gears, look for metal ones. Search around for BrentDavis. he was able to mod the Ofna tc3 clone metal gears.
..................I know Brent I have already did that mod and the gears are holding up quite well.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:10 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by rcfoolz View Post
I know that this is a bit on the same subject, I ran the NTC3 for about 3 years, running it on an oval at very high speeds. I never told anybody, but I had a guy in a machine shop that actualy made my gears out of steel. He was able to cut a set of gears for me one time that I used for over 2 years that was a different pitch so that I had overdrive in the car. If you are lucky enough to find a person who knows what they are doing, you can ask them to cut a gear for you but you need to use it in the rear of the car, it won't take the hits. I can't remember for sure, but there was two extra teeth in the big gear and the smaller gear for the shaft was stock but I used the smaller gear from the front diff after it was worn a little bit so it would mesh better with the new gear with more teeth. It would wear out after about 2 weekends and I had to replace it because of the different metals, but it worked out that the car was over driven by 4% in the front that way.

So yes, it can be done, but it will cost a bit unless you have a friend in a machine shop that is good with micro machining
...........Thank you for completley reading my post!! I have heard of the oversized front tire approach to overdriving a car but I don't want to do it that way!! I figured there would another way to achieve overdrive with a nitro tc-3. Thanks .
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:27 AM   #12
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I have a vague recollection of someone making a different ring/pinion set to achieve overdrive with the tc3.
I didn't miss the fact that you mention changing pulleys in your original post. I went through all of that because I got the impression you were mixed up regards overdrive. You seemed to be referring to the front being overdriven by the rear(underdrive), as opposed to the front being driven more than the rear. My appologies...
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Old 07-29-2008, 04:22 PM   #13
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No problem just gathering information for a future project
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