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Old 06-29-2005, 11:42 AM   #8161
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Hi all, I have a question about cutting the clutch shoes. I am new to nitro and trying to get a handle on some of the differences from electric.

My question is, what effects will you get by cutting your shoes, what area do you cut, and in what conditions should this be done?

Thank you for any help
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Old 06-29-2005, 12:14 PM   #8162
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Cutting the shoes is actually removing the WEIGH of the shoe, that means they are lighter, if the shoes are lighter, that means it take more power and RPM in order to get teh shoes engage....ideal for high end high HP engine, and have a very siimilar (but not as good) feeling like CENTAX clutch....

On NTC3, I personally does not like to cut the shoes, never like the high RPM engagment point cause the track is long and fast, HARDER punch on the launch does not required....

Punching on launch might be a good idea for short small track....and it is harder for your pinion and spur gears, not to mention, to your engine too....I don't think cutting NTC3 is really necessary....run stock 2 shoes or 3 shoes first before you make the call.
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Old 06-29-2005, 12:21 PM   #8163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie Solara
Cutting the shoes is actually removing the WEIGH of the shoe, that means they are lighter, if the shoes are lighter, that means it take more power and RPM in order to get teh shoes engage....ideal for high end high HP engine, and have a very siimilar (but not as good) feeling like CENTAX clutch....

i thought he was talking about cutting the clutch shoe, not the fly weights. cutting the clutch shoe will increase the pressure on the contact area (whatever is left after cutting) between the clutch shoe and the clutch bell since you will have the same amount of force but with less contact area now. i guess people cut it so the clutch won't slip that easily.
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Old 06-29-2005, 12:30 PM   #8164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Data
i thought he was talking about cutting the clutch shoe, not the fly weights. cutting the clutch shoe will increase the pressure on the contact area (whatever is left after cutting) between the clutch shoe and the clutch bell since you will have the same amount of force but with less contact area now. i guess people cut it so the clutch won't slip that easily.
You might be right (I always welcome ppl to correct my error)......lets say 2 shoes white pad on NTC3 (the stock shoes).......cutting the tip like 30%, that will leave 70% left area of surface that can contact the clutch bell....if you have LESS contacting area between the shoe and the clutch bell, your statment "....people cut it so the clutch won't slip that easily..." will not stand...less area, less grip....think about your foam tires, with 26mm rear versus 30mm rear........which one will have more grip? If 26mm rear foams get more grip, whos using 30mm rear foams?

Cutting the shoe is the WEIGH issue (again, that is what I have been taugh and told, and I might be wrong...) I know it is the clutch shoes, but in this type of clutch, it is also ACT as a flyweigh like the centax clutch....so, the lighter the shoe (after cutting 30% of the shoe off, it get light), the more RPM it takes in order to get that open......that why, the early time of the NTC3 stage (when there are no MIP clutch or Yokomo Centax) , Barry Baker actually CUT it, and even DRILL it, so the enigne will rev much higher RPM in order to engage and reach the maximum PUNCH like Centax....
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Old 06-29-2005, 12:44 PM   #8165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie Solara
if you have LESS contacting area between the shoe and the clutch bell, your statment "....people cut it so the clutch won't slip that easily..." will not stand...less area, less grip....think about your foam tires, with 26mm rear versus 30mm rear........which one will have more grip? If 26mm rear foams get more grip, whos using 30mm rear foams?
depends on how heavy the car is, but i don't think the weight of the car will change much. but if you think this is not the case, so be it.

Quote:
Cutting the shoe is the WEIGH issue (again, that is what I have been taugh and told, and I might be wrong...) I know it is the clutch shoes, but in this type of clutch, it is also ACT as a flyweigh like the centax clutch....so, the lighter the shoe (after cutting 30% of the shoe off, it get light), the more RPM it takes in order to get that open......that why, the early time of the NTC3 stage (when there are no MIP clutch or Yokomo Centax) , Barry Baker actually CUT it, and even DRILL it, so the enigne will rev much higher RPM in order to engage and reach the maximum PUNCH like Centax....
you are right iff porter refers to a centrifugal cluth. but i am suprised barry baker still uses this type of clutch. interesting.
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Old 06-29-2005, 12:54 PM   #8166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Data
depends on how heavy the car is, but i don't think the weight of the car will change much. but if you think this is not the case, so be it.



you are right iff porter refers to a centrifugal cluth. but i am suprised barry baker still uses this type of clutch. interesting.
Apple to apple, the wider/longer more contacting surface, the more grip that will be....less surface, more slip.
And no, I said at the eariler stage of NTC3 (like 2002/03 when NTC3 came out)....Baker was using cut and drill methrod............from the last RD Logic race (I think that was the race, or the VEGAS race)...he was using Yokomo Centax, and I knew he used that for a while....
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Old 06-29-2005, 01:29 PM   #8167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie Solara
Apple to apple, the wider/longer more contacting surface, the more grip that will be....less surface, more slip.
which one is easier to push across the floor, a 100 lb. box with a flat bottom surface (large contact surface area) or the same box with small stands at the four corners (less contact surface area) ?

Quote:
And no, I said at the eariler stage of NTC3 (like 2002/03 when NTC3 came out)....Baker was using cut and drill methrod............from the last RD Logic race (I think that was the race, or the VEGAS race)...he was using Yokomo Centax, and I knew he used that for a while....
sorry, missed that. have problem like this when i read long posts
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:23 PM   #8168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Data
which one is easier to push across the floor, a 100 lb. box with a flat bottom surface (large contact surface area) or the same box with small stands at the four corners (less contact surface area) ?
sorry, missed that. have problem like this when i read long posts
Don't really want to keep on going, but we were talking about TRACTION between a wide contacted surface and the ground (like clutch shoe verus clutch housing), not pushing an item..., also, it is rotation mass, not linear nor lateral....
If others can share their opinion, be our guest....it is a good and interesting topic...
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Old 06-29-2005, 03:47 PM   #8169
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Hi guys, if you dont know what purpose cutting or drilling clutch shoes serves dont try to guess or argue with someone that knows, Rookie Solara is 100% right and i've been drilling and cutting my clutch shoes according to the traction on a specific surface, length of track etc. The more WEIGHT you take off the shoe, the more centrifugal force (RPM) required to overcome the tension of the spring, hence a later (higher RPM) engagement. Its as simple as that.
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Old 06-29-2005, 04:07 PM   #8170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rody
Hi guys, if you dont know what purpose cutting or drilling clutch shoes serves dont try to guess or argue with someone that knows, Rookie Solara is 100% right and i've been drilling and cutting my clutch shoes according to the traction on a specific surface, length of track etc. The more WEIGHT you take off the shoe, the more centrifugal force (RPM) required to overcome the tension of the spring, hence a later (higher RPM) engagement. Its as simple as that.
i didn't guess or argue about the purpose of cutting or drilling a centrifugal clutch. i only guessed porter was referring to cutting clutch shoe on a centax clutch, which work differently.
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Old 06-29-2005, 05:13 PM   #8171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rody
Hi guys, if you dont know what purpose cutting or drilling clutch shoes serves dont try to guess or argue with someone that knows, Rookie Solara is 100% right and i've been drilling and cutting my clutch shoes according to the traction on a specific surface, length of track etc. The more WEIGHT you take off the shoe, the more centrifugal force (RPM) required to overcome the tension of the spring, hence a later (higher RPM) engagement. Its as simple as that.
I want to add something. On the stock NTC3 clutch shors, I only cut the inside part (against the flywheel nut), I never cut the outside part (against the clutch bell). So the contact surface remain the same, but the shoes are lighter, and that rquires more RPM to ENGAGE the clutch.

Besides, when you cut the inside part of the clutch shoes, the shoes will have more clearance to move further inward and that requires more time to engage the clutch with the same RPM.

Drilling holes on the shoes are also a very good way to lighten the shoes, if you have the electric tools.... For people without electric drills, I recomment cutting the inside of the shoes off with a hobby knife.... It works for me...
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Old 06-29-2005, 05:19 PM   #8172
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Hey guys,

Can someone point me to a link or "page number" that has setup info for the ntc3. I owned one before sold it and now I'm back....thought I get nitro another try. So...I need some initial setup info. Also any other general tips for the car would be appreciated. I'd search for it but shiat...I don't know where to start given the length of this general thread!

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Old 06-29-2005, 05:49 PM   #8173
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Try the Team Associated website-
www.teamassociated.com
Theres some setup sheets in there from Barry Baker etc with the setups they`ve run in their cars at various races.
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:04 PM   #8174
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What is the hot engine/pipe combo nowadays? I saw an ad for vantage carbon pipes...but I don't think they make one for NTC3..
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:10 PM   #8175
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try the rd logics pipe..i've heard good things about it and others also have recomended it..heres the site for it:
http://www.rdlogics.com/cgi-bin/cat...1255&type=store
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