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Old 03-31-2003, 08:03 PM   #3121
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I wouldnt go rtr not only because I hate the whole rtr thing but because the rtr ntc3 has lower quality parts, and virtually every part so to change it to team specs youd have to change virtually every part on the car, from what Ive heard the rtr chassi which is made by TT is flexy and the plastics are flexier and lower quality than the associated made parts of the team kit. Ive also never and I mean NEVER seen anyone get off to a better start because they got a rtr, all the people Ive seen who've got rtrs dont fix anything themselves and know absolutly nothing about their cars, not even the basics like what an a-arm is, and none of them really put in the time to learn how to fix it and such even though they think they will. IMO people who start with kits know what theyre doing from the start and never buy a rtr if they can avoid it, and seem to just have more rc knowledge in general.
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Old 03-31-2003, 08:06 PM   #3122
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Solid rear diff spool has anyone tried that? what does it do? whats the function of it? Has anyone used the Solid Axle ? what does that do? i really need to know im going to get these next
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Old 03-31-2003, 08:14 PM   #3123
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Hello all im sopose to be ordering my first nitro ever. I want the NTC3 but i am arguing with people about the rtr's and the kits. Ive heard that the rtr's handling sucks really bad and the car isnt all that good. Im really on a budget i cannot spend 800$ for a kit, engine, electronics etc. I just dont have that money right now. I want to take it slow so i said im going with the NTC3 RTR and upgrade it with hop ups to convert it into a kit and now I am hearing that its impossible to do that so i am asking help i need it really bad i dont know what to do ive been waiting to get my car for over 3 months and now ive got a week to know what im doing I NEED YOU HELP!! What should i do? What are the differences of a kit and rtr. except the things listed on the rc10.com website and the engine and electronics??!?! i am very confused pplease help
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RTRs Suck, but they're good for beginners.
simonfdr, as my son would say "Chill Dude"

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First of all PEOPLE is plural already. Second of all if you get the RTR dont bother coming near me because you will stink like an rtr butt. Kit is much better than RTR. If you don't have enough, start saving.
THIS IS NOT YOUR NORMAL RTR!!! 'nough said? I Don't think so.

OK Guys here's the deal. As a driver who has finished IN THE MONEY both times I have raced my Nitro TC3 RTR, they are basically the same car.

The main differences are the kit comes with a 2 speed (available from Associated for the RTR as a kit), the VCS aluminum threaded shocks (also available from Associated in both a pair of shock bodies & as a kit of 4 shocks), MIP Aluminum CVD's (available from Associated & MIP), a two piece front bumper that is prone to breaking, & no body.

The RTR comes with a single speed transmission (available as an option for the kit for really short tight technical tracks), plastic/composite VCS shocks (the same shocks that come in the Electric TC3 Racer Kit), steel outdrives (not near as susceptible to bending when you tap a board as the Aluminum MIP CVD's), a single piece front bumper, a knockoff of the ProLine Stratus body pre-painted, and the Associated pull start .12 engine with the SG crankshaft & a rotary carb with a restrictor. This engine is made by Thundertiger & is nice little motor. It has a knife edged rod & some very nice machining on the ports on the sleeve. Associated needs to release a "Team" version with their O'Donnell made Team head, no pull start, & a good slide carb & it would be a monster of a side exhaust motor. If you pull the restrictor it really wakes it up. The RTR also comes with the questionable quality Ace Jaguar Radio (lots of people have had problems with this radio but it does have throttle end point adjustments which are necessary for a nitro car. So far I haven't had any problems with the radio at all).

You can take any part from the RTR & put it on the kit & visa-versa.

Things I have had to do to get the car ready for racing:

I noticed that the driveshaft was slightly bent & the assembler had used a trimmed Ace servo horn for the steering servo instead of the correct Associated steering servo horn so I replaced them. I added the steering rack bearings to free up the steering a little more. (this is an optional part & doesn't not come in the RTR or the kit). I bought a droop gage since it comes with the kit but NOT with the RTR. I READ THE MANUAL, broke out the provided alignment tools and reset the car to the standard rubber setup & checked all the engine adjustments. I set all the trims & the throttle end points. I dialed in a little drag brake like the manual says. I checked the diff adjustments. I also purchased the e-book version of the Associated Nitro TC3 tuning guide & read/downloaded everything I could find on the web about this car including all the setups on the AE website & read both this entire thread & all the Radio Controlled Zone Associated NTC3 thread (about 200 pages total for both threads at that time). I have kept up both threads every since. I followed Associated's break-in instructions. When I installed the batteries, I used a lot of servo tape to cushion the ends to keep the battery holder from moving & strapped it in with the zip ties in the kit. I also bought a set of Ellegi 40 shore 26mm front & 30mm rear foam tires since our track is asphalt & treated with sugar water for traction. I also installed a failsafe.

Things that have happened in two weeks of racing:

The first week was very frustrating, trying to learn to drive a car again in a race setting after not driving a car in competition for approximately 12 years ( I used to run electric dirt oval years ago so I am a Nitro newbe). A defective glow starter hampered my tuning (couldn't keep the darn thing running long enough to get the car set up right). The Gel cell I robbed from an old USP for the starter box died (I thought the motor was cranky because of the pull start & got a starter box but it was the bad glow igniter). Just about every thing that could go wrong did. I knocked an alkaline battery loose in the first heat & lost the radio but luckily the car did not run away, fixed it, and finished the heat with four laps. Since I never got a good practice or a good run in the first heat the motor is still pretty much at the factory settings & flamed out on me in the second heat due to running too rich. How I qualified 7th instead of dead last I'll never know. One of the local racers helped me get the car ready for the main & let me borrow a good glow starter. In the first two laps I hit a board so hard I knocked the motor loose (I forgot to Loctite the screws when I checked the gear mesh & they loosened slightly). The racer pitting for me got the motor readjusted & got me back in the race. At about the 6 minute mark (This was a 10 minute main), I hit the board again so hard I broke the front diff case by ripping the shock tower almost out of it (still held on by 1 screw) and shoved the tuned pipe back about 1/2 inch bending the exhaust pipe. Since the car was still drivable I finished the race & took third. Damaged parts, front diff case, both front lower pivot balls bent, the left front upper shock mounting screw bent some, & a seriously bent exhaust pipe. The tuned pipe has a bent nipple but no other damage. Yhe steel outdrives did NOT bent & the chassis is still straight. I replaced the damaged parts & went ahead & rebuilt the shocks just for piece of mind. I wanted to know exactly what shock oil was in the shocks & I found the shocks were 4 different lengths. I corrected this & prepaired the car for the next race. NOTE: If there is a Harbor Freight near you, check to see if they still have the Cen_Tec Digital dial caliper on sale. I set all the shock lengths to .447 measured from the bottom of the shock to the top of the eyelet. This is a must have for any racer's tool box (whatever brand caliper you get).

The second week of racing was much better. To eliminate the Alkaline battery problem I bought a Team Orion NiMh receiver pack. To cure the starter box power problem, I bought a couple of Shark 1500mA packs for the starter box. Got in some good practice time & was able to tune the motor some (I'm still learning to tune the motor but have found a lot of good information here & on other forums, especially NitroRC.com). Was able to make little changes to make the car better as the race day went on. I qualified 8th in a 12 car field which put me second in the Novice Nitro B main. All three of my qualifiers were 11 laps & the only reason I didn't do better was me, not the car. In the main I ran very well & the only reason I didn't take first were my mistakes (tapped a few boards & cut a few corners too close. I had to stop a few times because I left one of the body clips off & stopped for a marshal to reposition the body. It doesn't handle too well when the left rear of the car is stuck in the air the rear bumper is at a 45 degree angle. Even with the errors I made driving I still took second place with 12 laps (5 minute main) & a full lap over third place (I will MAKE SURE the body clips are on the next race DOH).

So to all those who badmouth the NTC3 as a "Fragile?" car or say the RTR "Stinks?" just don't know what they are talking about. Most of the reasons this car breaks is due to people who have to have all the "Team" parts that are stiffer but not necessarily stronger. In some cases the Team parts are more brittle & unless you are in the same ball park as Barry Baker or Mark Pavidis skillwise & can put that small amount of extra stiffness to work for you, one really hard hit on a board will end your day.

Bill (Nitro TC3 RTR racer who will be passing you for first real soon )

Last edited by GP40X; 03-31-2003 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 03-31-2003, 09:56 PM   #3124
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Quote:
Originally posted by GP40X
simonfdr, as my son would say "Chill Dude"



THIS IS NOT YOUR NORMAL RTR!!! 'nough said? I Don't think so.

OK Guys here's the deal. As a driver who has finished IN THE MONEY both times I have raced my Nitro TC3 RTR, they are basically the same car.

The main differences are the kit comes with a 2 speed (available from Associated for the RTR as a kit), the VCS aluminum threaded shocks (also available from Associated in both a pair of shock bodies & as a kit of 4 shocks), MIP Aluminum CVD's (available from Associated & MIP), a two piece front bumper that is prone to breaking, & no body.

The RTR comes with a single speed transmission (available as an option for the kit for really short tight technical tracks), plastic/composite VCS shocks (the same shocks that come in the Electric TC3 Racer Kit), steel outdrives (not near as susceptible to bending when you tap a board as the Aluminum MIP CVD's), a single piece front bumper, a knockoff of the ProLine Stratus body pre-painted, and the Associated pull start .12 engine with the SG crankshaft & a rotary carb with a restrictor. This engine is made by Thundertiger & is nice little motor. It has a knife edged rod & some very nice machining on the ports on the sleeve. Associated needs to release a "Team" version with their O'Donnell made Team head, no pull start, & a good slide carb & it would be a monster of a side exhaust motor. If you pull the restrictor it really wakes it up. The RTR also comes with the questionable quality Ace Jaguar Radio (lots of people have had problems with this radio but it does have throttle end point adjustments which are necessary for a nitro car. So far I haven't had any problems with the radio at all).

You can take any part from the RTR & put it on the kit & visa-versa.

Things I have had to do to get the car ready for racing:

I noticed that the driveshaft was slightly bent & the assembler had used a trimmed Ace servo horn for the steering servo instead of the correct Associated steering servo horn so I replaced them. I added the steering rack bearings to free up the steering a little more. (this is an optional part & doesn't not come in the RTR or the kit). I bought a droop gage since it comes with the kit but NOT with the RTR. I READ THE MANUAL, broke out the provided alignment tools and reset the car to the standard rubber setup & checked all the engine adjustments. I set all the trims & the throttle end points. I dialed in a little drag brake like the manual says. I checked the diff adjustments. I also purchased the e-book version of the Associated Nitro TC3 tuning guide & read/downloaded everything I could find on the web about this car including all the setups on the AE website & read both this entire thread & all the Radio Controlled Zone Associated NTC3 thread (about 200 pages total for both threads at that time). I have kept up both threads every since. I followed Associated's break-in instructions. When I installed the batteries, I used a lot of servo tape to cushion the ends to keep the battery holder from moving & strapped it in with the zip ties in the kit. I also bought a set of Ellegi 40 shore 26mm front & 30mm rear foam tires since our track is asphalt & treated with sugar water for traction. I also installed a failsafe.

Things that have happened in two weeks of racing:

The first week was very frustrating, trying to learn to drive a car again in a race setting after not driving a car in competition for approximately 12 years ( I used to run electric dirt oval years ago so I am a Nitro newbe). A defective glow starter hampered my tuning (couldn't keep the darn thing running long enough to get the car set up right). The Gel cell I robbed from an old USP for the starter box died (I thought the motor was cranky because of the pull start & got a starter box but it was the bad glow igniter). Just about every thing that could go wrong did. I knocked an alkaline battery loose in the first heat & lost the radio but luckily the car did not run away, fixed it, and finished the heat with four laps. Since I never got a good practice or a good run in the first heat the motor is still pretty much at the factory settings & flamed out on me in the second heat due to running too rich. How I qualified 7th instead of dead last I'll never know. One of the local racers helped me get the car ready for the main & let me borrow a good glow starter. In the first two laps I hit a board so hard I knocked the motor loose (I forgot to Loctite the screws when I checked the gear mesh & they loosened slightly). The racer pitting for me got the motor readjusted & got me back in the race. At about the 6 minute mark (This was a 10 minute main), I hit the board again so hard I broke the front diff case by ripping the shock tower almost out of it (still held on by 1 screw) and shoved the tuned pipe back about 1/2 inch bending the exhaust pipe. Since the car was still drivable I finished the race & took third. Damaged parts, front diff case, both front lower pivot balls bent, the left front upper shock mounting screw bent some, & a seriously bent exhaust pipe. The tuned pipe has a bent nipple but no other damage. Yhe steel outdrives did NOT bent & the chassis is still straight. I replaced the damaged parts & went ahead & rebuilt the shocks just for piece of mind. I wanted to know exactly what shock oil was in the shocks & I found the shocks were 4 different lengths. I corrected this & prepaired the car for the next race. NOTE: If there is a Harbor Freight near you, check to see if they still have the Cen_Tec Digital dial caliper on sale. I set all the shock lengths to .447 measured from the bottom of the shock to the top of the eyelet. This is a must have for any racer's tool box (whatever brand caliper you get).

The second week of racing was much better. To eliminate the Alkaline battery problem I bought a Team Orion NiMh receiver pack. To cure the starter box power problem, I bought a couple of Shark 1500mA packs for the starter box. Got in some good practice time & was able to tune the motor some (I'm still learning to tune the motor but have found a lot of good information here & on other forums, especially NitroRC.com). Was able to make little changes to make the car better as the race day went on. I qualified 8th in a 12 car field which put me second in the Novice Nitro B main. All three of my qualifiers were 11 laps & the only reason I didn't do better was me, not the car. In the main I ran very well & the only reason I didn't take first were my mistakes (tapped a few boards & cut a few corners too close. I had to stop a few times because I left one of the body clips off & stopped for a marshal to reposition the body. It doesn't handle too well when the left rear of the car is stuck in the air the rear bumper is at a 45 degree angle. Even with the errors I made driving I still took second place with 12 laps (5 minute main) & a full lap over third place (I will MAKE SURE the body clips are on the next race DOH).

So to all those who badmouth the NTC3 as a "Fragile?" car or say the RTR "Stinks?" just don't know what they are talking about. Most of the reasons this car breaks is due to people who have to have all the "Team" parts that are stiffer but not necessarily stronger. In some cases the Team parts are more brittle & unless you are in the same ball park as Barry Baker or Mark Pavidis skillwise & can put that small amount of extra stiffness to work for you, one really hard hit on a board will end your day.

Bill (Nitro TC3 RTR racer who will be passing you for first real soon )

You shut me up =( Sorry? I heard some horror storys about the RTR that is why.
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Old 03-31-2003, 10:02 PM   #3125
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Oh man, I got my ass handed to me with that 3 page essay. All I'm saying is that If your going to get a RTR and spend that money, why not just put in few extra bucks and get a Kit.
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:09 PM   #3126
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Oh man, I got my ass handed to me with that 3 page essay. All I'm saying is that If your going to get a RTR and spend that money, why not just put in few extra bucks and get a Kit.
Hi simonfdr,

The main reason I went with the RTR over the kit (which I would have preferred) is it got me racing again cheaper (by about $250.00 + $50.00 for the steel outdrives). I looked at it both ways & was able to get the starter box, some foam tires, & some other things I would not have been able to get if I had gone the kit route with the budget I had. The 27 band Ace Jaguar radio is fine for now with my curent skill level and the reviews I read about the car in the magazines all stated the plastic was just a touch softer so it flexes just a little instead of breaking like the Factory Team parts. Every one gave the car good reviews so I got it. I knew I would be bouncing off the boards a lot so if I had gotten the kit I would have had to spend an extra 50 bucks for the steel outdrives anyway. Plus since I am new to Nitro if I kill the RTR engine by not tuning it right, it will hurt a lot less than if I gernaded a Novarossi engine or fried the sleeve & piston because I got it too lean. I wasn't trying to flame you. Just defending my car.

Now I can tell ya a NTC3 horror story. The reason I got to see the inside of an AE engine was there was a gernaded one at the hobby shop. It seems a mother bought her 8 year old little darling a Nitro TC3 RTR. The person at the LHS cautioned the mother to read the instructions with her son so they could get started off on the right foot (he tried to steer her to an electric but her son wanted a "Gas" car). The son did not want to co-operate & told his mother that he "knew" what he was doing. Said child took the car outside, filled the car up with fuel, connected the glow igniter, & fired the RTR up WITHOUT INSTALLING ANY BATTERIES IN THE CAR OR RADIO! Said car took off at full throttle & wound up upside down in a neighbor's yard & the engine went BOOM (according to the information I got from the LHS person). Damage was the conn rod, piston & sleeve, & a dent in the crank journal where it came around again & hit the broken rod. The amazing thing was there was not a single mark on the car including no chassis scratches. I thought the LHS had built a kit for someone when I first saw & asked about it.

Bill (NTC3 RTR Racer)

P.S catch ya'll tomrrow. It's midnight & the wife is in the mood so g'nite all.
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Old 04-01-2003, 12:14 AM   #3127
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Originally posted by AE Racer
I wouldnt go rtr not only because I hate the whole rtr thing but because the rtr ntc3 has lower quality parts, and virtually every part so to change it to team specs youd have to change virtually every part on the car, from what Ive heard the rtr chassi which is made by TT is flexy and the plastics are flexier and lower quality than the associated made parts of the team kit. Ive also never and I mean NEVER seen anyone get off to a better start because they got a rtr, all the people Ive seen who've got rtrs dont fix anything themselves and know absolutly nothing about their cars, not even the basics like what an a-arm is, and none of them really put in the time to learn how to fix it and such even though they think they will. IMO people who start with kits know what theyre doing from the start and never buy a rtr if they can avoid it, and seem to just have more rc knowledge in general.
JMO
AE doesn't make different parts for the RTR compared to the team kit. You don't have to change every part to make it a team kit, come on man get your facts straight don't just say something because you heard it from some where. Do some research the rtr part numbers are the same as the kit.

What is the deal with people being so upset about buying a rtr? What difference does it make? Last April I bought my first car it was a rtr Duratrax Street Force I knew absolutely nothing about the hobby. The person at my LHS saw a sucker and sold me a rtr and said it was the best car out there. About a month later I found out I was hood winked. Needless to say that hobby store is out of business. I sold it and bought a HPI RS4 3 SS my first kit. In the last year I own a NTC3, TC3, RC10T3, Losi XXX-NT and a HPI Super Nitro all kits.

My point is people have to start somewhere and if it is a rtr so be it. Hell I didn't know people raced these things until after I bought the rtr.

Last edited by Number 11; 04-01-2003 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 04-01-2003, 01:32 AM   #3128
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yeah i agree about rtr, how they help the hobby. when i 1st got in the hobby about 5yrs ago i bought a nitro 4 tec, then about a 1 year later i bought a hpr racer 2 then a few years later i bought a NTC3 kit version. the reasion i started out w/ the rtr, was that i was not sure that iw as going to like the hobby. and look at me 5 yrs later still in the hobby, and all the LHS's around town know me by name cause i go in and talk not always buying, the hobby is a great way to make buds and all.

good topic guys

hope to talk to yall soon Jason
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Old 04-01-2003, 05:25 AM   #3129
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according to the mag articles,the composite materials for the RTR were supposed to be of a differnt material...a little more flex in them......I compared the 2 cars and could see a difference...

what I did notice is that the RTR chassis is a CHEAP duplicate from thunder tiger..and bends like a pretzel...so thats the firts thing I'd replace..
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Old 04-01-2003, 06:45 AM   #3130
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according to the mag articles,the composite materials for the RTR were supposed to be of a differnt material...a little more flex in them......I compared the 2 cars and could see a difference...

what I did notice is that the RTR chassis is a CHEAP duplicate from thunder tiger..and bends like a pretzel...so thats the firts thing I'd replace..
Download the manuel from AE for the RTR the part numbers for the rtr are the same as the part numbers from the kit. Chassis part number 2224.
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:09 AM   #3131
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they are the same part numbers, but the RTR is made by thunder tiger, many times they use different plastic, etc. when they make RTRs for AE.
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Old 04-01-2003, 08:11 AM   #3132
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Where in the world are you people getting this information? Associated makes only two parts out the same mold. One is the Factory Team Graphite and one is the standard plastic that comes with the kit. Why would they go through all the extra trouble to make yet another type for use in the RTR. That wouldn't make any sense for them financially. Think about it, it only takes common sense. In fact, if the cars are in fact assembled out of country I would guess they have someone overseas molding the parts for the RTR close to where they are being assembled. That would be the only difference in the molding procedure. The specs for the material would still be the same and they would still come from Associated. Why stamp out two versions of the same chassis when it's going on the same car? The more streamlined their parts supply can be the better they will do with things. They don't want to have to keep two different parts in their warehouse when all they would need is one to do the same job. Above all else AE is in this to make money and this is the things they do. The Team car and the RTR are the same other than the things GP40X listed. It just doesn't make financial sense for AE to do it any other way.

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Old 04-01-2003, 08:13 AM   #3133
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And the biggest point I forgot was that AE has the cars assembled by TT. TT does NOT make the car or the parts. They only assemble it in their factory.

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Old 04-01-2003, 08:34 AM   #3134
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why would associated ship parts overseas when they can make them there and assemble them there. just like the RTR shock tower on the GT. where are you getting your information? i'm pretty sure they make all the rtr parts overseas and AE replacement parts are made in america
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Old 04-01-2003, 10:12 AM   #3135
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Why doesn't somebody just E-Mail Associated and ask?
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