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Old 04-08-2004, 09:45 PM   #856
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Hi guys,

I am about to sit down and read through this whole forum to see what has been happening with the FW-05. I have a few questions though, they are:

Do the orginal springs from the V1-R work on the Fw-05?

Is a solid diff available, Preferably for the frnt?

Is it a centax or standard clutch?

Thanks guys

BB
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:23 PM   #857
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffreylin
I had 1 before and I already increased it to 2 (less droop). If I increase it much further there wouldn't be much suspension travel left.
That's OK, keep limiting the droop till there is zero downward suspension travel when you lift the front of the chassis if need be. Don't be worried about it - I think the 710 box set-up suggests 0 front droop, but D will know.

The oblect here is to get the balance right. You have to either gain front grip or lose rear grip. Also do what InitialD and KMac suggested - that's going in the right direction.

For the rear, since your already using Gold springs, you could decrease toe-in, lose some camber, stffen the shock oil (the Kyosho 50W is a bit light IMO) use a harder bar or raise the ride height.

For the front, you could go to silver (softer) springs, move the upper shock mounting inwards, more camber.

. . . . lotsa stuff to try, yet.
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:29 PM   #858
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
I guess as opposed to increasing it to 2, you should be decreasing it to 0 or -1. Under acceleration when weight transfers to the rear anyhow, you still have suspension travel that the front tires stay in contact.

Try less rear toe in to say +1.5 or +1. Try a stiffer rear diff combined with more caster (more laid down). Increases on power steering.
Hi D, how's going. I think the droop works the other way around. If I increase the droop in front, under power the car will lean more toward the rear, the front will rise more, and more weight will transfer to the rear. This is akin to having a higher ride height in the front. I think what you say might apply to off road applications but for on road I think the opposite is true.

I could try less toe-in in the rear but I just can't believe I would use less toe-in in the rear than my electric TC.

I will play with the caster next.
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:30 PM   #859
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Quote:
Originally posted by KMac
get rid of the front swaybar.
ok, I will try that too. Thanks.
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:32 PM   #860
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Quote:
Originally posted by orangbaligila
I read that you're using a one way, right? when you need extra oversteer,.. why not try to stiifen the rear diff (use heavier oil),.. only one thing to mess with,... cos IMO, with a front one-way 18,000 in the rear is far too light,... try 30,000 (I'm using front diff with 50,000 oil, so I think 30,000 will still be in the light side w/ a front one-way) it'll surely give you plenty of power to whip the tail,....

note: smoother steering input will be needed
I think that would work except that way it will take away too much steering going into the turn. That would've been okay if I can use full brake but can't do that with a one-way...
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:33 PM   #861
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bundy_Bear
Hi guys,

I am about to sit down and read through this whole forum to see what has been happening with the FW-05. I have a few questions though, they are:

Do the orginal springs from the V1-R work on the Fw-05?

Is a solid diff available, Preferably for the frnt?

Is it a centax or standard clutch?

Thanks guys

BB
I am sure the springs will work. Don't know about a spool. It has centax clutch (and works quite well I might add).
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Old 04-08-2004, 11:39 PM   #862
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffreylin
I am sure the springs will work. Don't know about a spool. It has centax clutch (and works quite well I might add).
Thank you...

I have been running a Serpent 710 and it does handle very well, but i have not been able to get it too run for a full race distance very often and have given up in frustration. I had a good run with Kyosho a few years ago with a V1R, but ending up falling a victim too the NTC3 bug...

What springs does everyone use?

And what advatages does the Kawahara frnt end give too the car?
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Old 04-08-2004, 11:56 PM   #863
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffreylin
Hi D, how's going. I think the droop works the other way around. If I increase the droop in front, under power the car will lean more toward the rear, the front will rise more, and more weight will transfer to the rear. This is akin to having a higher ride height in the front. I think what you say might apply to off road applications but for on road I think the opposite is true.
Like I mentioned, weight transfer happens anyway regardless of the front droop. If you limit front droop, the front of the chassis lifts up and the tire looses contact with the ground = less steering. If you have sufficient droop, weight will transfer to the rear anyways but due to sufficient front droop, the front wheels will still be in contact on the surface during on power = more steering.

But like Taylor-Racing mentioned, just try it out.

Quote:
Originally posted by jeffreylin
I could try less toe-in in the rear but I just can't believe I would use less toe-in in the rear than my electric TC.
You'd be surprise that a lot of people would limit toe in to +1 in the rear. Better straight line speed. More on power steering but less stable in the corners.
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Old 04-08-2004, 11:57 PM   #864
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffreylin
I think that would work except that way it will take away too much steering going into the turn.
Not when you increase the rear diff in conjunction with using more caster... Stiffening the front with sway bar and front shock springs would magnify the effect in this case.
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Old 04-09-2004, 12:35 AM   #865
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Like I mentioned, weight transfer happens anyway regardless of the front droop. If you limit front droop, the front of the chassis lifts up and the tire looses contact with the ground = less steering. If you have sufficient droop, weight will transfer to the rear anyways but due to sufficient front droop, the front wheels will still be in contact on the surface during on power = more steering.

But like Taylor-Racing mentioned, just try it out.
Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
Reduce front droop to limit weight transfer to the rear under acceleration.
D, what Taylor-Racing said is also contrary to what you suggested. You are saying increase front droop to gain steering on power, he is saying reduce droop to gain steering.

Yet from Losi's web site (http://www.teamlosi.com/xxxs_page/xxxs_droop.htm):

As you increase your front droop (making the shock longer) you will smooth the car out going into the turn and gain steering on the exit of the turn. As you decrease your front droop (make the front shock shorter) your car will initiate the turn quicker but will have less steering coming out of the turn. The car will also have a more responsive feel.

But from Orion's web site (http://www.teamorion.com/faq/car-handling3.asp):

So, if one end of the car has less downtravel than the other, that end will be forced down more in a turn, which makes for more grip at that end, aspecially in the middle part of the turn, where weight transfer is more pronounced. Very little downtravel at the front will give a lot of steering, aspecially when entering a corner at high speed, or very violently. Very little downtravel at the rear will give a lot, and consistent traction throughout the turn.

Thus far, I'd say my testing seems to agree with the less droop more steering camp, but I changes so many things last time (sigh) I cannot say for sure.
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Old 04-09-2004, 02:01 AM   #866
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I also have questions regarding the centre and rear conversion kits available from Kawahara. What advantage will they give you? Also does the 31581 kit come with the front one way?

What does the red clutch shoes do and the red brake pads?

Thanks in advance...

BB
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Old 04-09-2004, 02:02 AM   #867
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffreylin
D, what Taylor-Racing said is also contrary to what you suggested. You are saying increase front droop to gain steering on power, he is saying reduce droop to gain steering.

<SNIP>

Thus far, I'd say my testing seems to agree with the less droop more steering camp, but I changes so many things last time (sigh) I cannot say for sure.

Yes, Losi's and Orion's web site are, at best, confusing, if not contradictory.

If I recall, we've been down this path before, and a lot of the confusion is to do with how different people express droop. This is why I talk in terms of "limiting the droop" - I don't care if you call it +2mm or -2mm.

For clarity, if our car (RR/EVO) is set with 2mm of droop, I'm saying that when I take a screwdriver and lift the front end of the chassis, I'll be able to raise the chassis 2mm before the wheels leave the ground. If it has 1mm of droop, I'll be able to raise it 1mm before the wheels leave the ground etc.

"If I increase the droop in front, under power the car will lean more toward the rear, the front will rise more, and more weight will transfer to the rear. This is akin to having a higher ride height in the front."

So, what you said above is correct . . . . and no, you won't get those front wheels off the deck. If you do, please PM me your engine details.

As a side note, these FW's do seem to be a bit more hassle setting up than some cars, but if the ones at our local track are anything to go by, once they are on, they really are ON.
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Old 04-09-2004, 02:14 AM   #868
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I run mine as follows

Rear camber 2 deg
Rear Toe 2 deg
Rear shock Black spring 35wt oil outer hole
Rear swaybar Black
Rear link Upper Upper

Front Camber 2 deg
Front toe 0deg
Front Caster 8deg
Front shock silver spring 35wt oil inner hole
Front Sway 45 deg

Handles like scalextric.
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Old 04-09-2004, 02:25 AM   #869
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Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
If I recall, we've been down this path before, and a lot of the confusion is to do with how different people express droop. This is why I talk in terms of "limiting the droop" - I don't care if you call it +2mm or -2mm.

For clarity, if our car (RR/EVO) is set with 2mm of droop, I'm saying that when I take a screwdriver and lift the front end of the chassis, I'll be able to raise the chassis 2mm before the wheels leave the ground. If it has 1mm of droop, I'll be able to raise it 1mm before the wheels leave the ground etc.

"If I increase the droop in front, under power the car will lean more toward the rear, the front will rise more, and more weight will transfer to the rear. This is akin to having a higher ride height in the front."

So, what you said above is correct . . . . and no, you won't get those front wheels off the deck. If you do, please PM me your engine details.

As a side note, these FW's do seem to be a bit more hassle setting up than some cars, but if the ones at our local track are anything to go by, once they are on, they really are ON.
Thanks Taylor-Racing for your reply. What I said agrees with what you said. More droop = less downward wheel travel. I never thought the front will lift under power, I mean that with more droop, the wheel can move further down, which means the chassis can move further up. By limiting how much the wheels will go down, in effect you limit how much the front will rise, thus limiting the weight transfer.

However, D and Losi seems to believe that by allowing the front wheel to go down further, the front will have more contact with the ground during acceleration, and provide more steering.

My FW-05 is half way there if I can work this out...
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Old 04-09-2004, 02:31 AM   #870
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bundy_Bear
I also have questions regarding the centre and rear conversion kits available from Kawahara. What advantage will they give you? Also does the 31581 kit come with the front one way?

What does the red clutch shoes do and the red brake pads?

Thanks in advance...

BB
31581 does not come with a front one-way. 31582 comes with the red clutch shoes too. It's heavier and suppose to engage slower (less abruptly), helps with low traction surface. The red pads are softer and also less abrupt brake action.

I don't know abou the Kawahara conversion kits.
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