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Old 06-30-2004, 08:01 PM   #3331
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
I have posted previously that I had bearing failures, I have had no failures since I have been using this setup.
What was the difference done between this and the previous clutch setup?
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Old 06-30-2004, 08:06 PM   #3332
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
What was the difference done between this and the previous clutch setup?
Now I have shims on the inside and basically removed all the endplay from the bell. Seems that this arrangement stops a lot of the shock to the bell.
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Old 06-30-2004, 08:08 PM   #3333
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I put bearings into the steering rack as well. Definately a recommended change as it frees up the steering rack a lot and removes a heap of slop. My plastic bushings had quite a lot of wear on them.
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Old 06-30-2004, 08:11 PM   #3334
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Quote:
Originally posted by fastharry
where are you putting the shims to achieve this gap,behind the flywheel?...
You could add shims behind in between the front engine bearing and the flywheel. That would be the old way of doing it.

But nowadays, most Centax clutched allow you to put shims in the front where the thrust bearing is.

Anyway, if you find that you need to put a lot of shims in the front where the thrust bearings are, you could add shims in between the front engine bearing and the flywheel.

Say for example that you need 2.4 mm worth of shims (that's a lot shims !) in the front where the thrust bearings are to get the 0.4 to 0.6 mm clutch gap, you could add about 1.5 mm more shim in between the front engine bearing and the flywheel and you'll end up using only 0.9 mm worth of shims in the front.
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Old 07-01-2004, 12:28 AM   #3335
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since we are on the topic of shoes, I was wondering how does one know when it is time to replace the shoes and when is a good time to replace the thrust bearing (what are signs of wear).

-Jason
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Old 07-01-2004, 09:10 AM   #3336
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does anyone know if the mtx-3 clutch fits the R40 ? I would like to replace it. Or does the Serpent clutch fit? (with the gears etc)

Replace the thrust bearing if it feels gritty when you are pulling out the clutchbell and spin it.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:04 AM   #3337
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mange
does anyone know if the mtx-3 clutch fits the R40 ? I would like to replace it. Or does the Serpent clutch fit? (with the gears etc)

Replace the thrust bearing if it feels gritty when you are pulling out the clutchbell and spin it.
I am sure the stock R40 centax is acceptable and OK to work with, you just need to fine tune it (and not using the stock HPI setting)......

If you want to use MUGEN MTX3 or Serpent Centax 2, you have to use the WHOLE cetnax, not just swapping some parts from Mugen or Serpent and use it with R40 centax....they won't fit espeically Serpent is using 3 legs flywheel instead of 4....Mugen will have a better chance to do the swapping.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:07 AM   #3338
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Ok, sounds good. Yeah i know that the R40 clutch is ok. But here in Sweden HPI parts support are Poor. And Mugen parts are easy to find.

I will try with the mugen clutch.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:18 AM   #3339
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
I posted this a while ago. Here is my latest clutch setup that has so much punch the car actually was jumping slightly on a low bite track:

Delta Red shoes
Kyosho Bronze colour spring - FW16
A heap of Mugen shims (or any other shims will work)

1. Assemble the clutch without the unner bearing. Pull the clutch housing away from the shoe. Measure the gap between the housing and the shoe. This the the clutch gap. You want it between 0.4-0.6mm in my setup.

2. Put the inner bearing back in place. Add shims between this bearing and the clutch nut until there is almost no float. 0.1mm or less.

3. Set the adjuster nut to 1.4mm.

This setup gives awesome clutch response, and also is far easier on the clutch bearings. I have posted previously that I had bearing failures, I have had no failures since I have been using this setup.
AMG, Thanks for the information, and that is exactly what I want to know...I was playing with SHIMS with the R40 centax, as much as they did a good car like R40, their centax is still not as good as a centax compare to Mugen or Serpent.

I have replaced most of the R40 centax parts with new one (new OEM parts)........I still feel the clutch housing is a little warble here and there..........my 4 years old Serpent centax does not have that kind of a feeling, still spin freely and smoothly.

But anyhow............I still want to work on the R40 centax cause that will fit the R40 the best (I hope), but I want to know, should I stick with the 0.8mm stock black shim behind the collet and add/remove shims in front..?

The old way of building centax is add/remove shim before collet, the newer way of setting centax is FIX shim at the collet and add/remove shim before clutch bearing and in front of the thrust bearing....

And last night, I have to do BOTH........collet shim ended up to 1mm and add a 0.4mm before bearing and 0.8mm before thrust bearing............STILL.........ended up 0.45mm gap different, which I don't really satisfried with, I want to shorted it to 0.25mm to 0.35mm range.....which is very easy to set on all of my Serpent Centax.

This is by far the longest time I have to spend on doing a Centax system.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:21 AM   #3340
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mange
Ok, sounds good. Yeah i know that the R40 clutch is ok. But here in Sweden HPI parts support are Poor. And Mugen parts are easy to find.

I will try with the mugen clutch.
As long as you swap the WHOLE centax, you should be OK....just make sure your gearing are 1.0 or 0.8 module.....you can always upgrade the R40 1.0 to the 0.8 module and use the MTX3 Pro spec system.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:27 AM   #3341
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Say for example that you need 2.4 mm worth of shims (that's a lot shims !) in the front where the thrust bearings are to get the 0.4 to 0.6 mm clutch gap, you could add about 1.5 mm more shim in between the front engine bearing and the flywheel and you'll end up using only 0.9 mm worth of shims in the front.
I am sure the concept is correct........but I think when I was reading the Serpent Centax building instruction (and my personal experience), they already said that 2.4mm-1.5mm= 0.9mm theory is NOT necessary the case in the Centax....again, the concept is CORRECT, but not necessary gaining 1.5mm of shim in front of the flywheel = need only 0.9mm shim in front of the thrust bearing........you might need LESS then 0.9mm shim, or it might be MORE then 0.9mm of shim, but the concept is there.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:31 AM   #3342
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Just want to share this to you guys.............another methrod to confuse everyone (the 3rd way to add shim)

http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=9829

and this

http://www.rctek.com/info_centax_clutch.html

As you can see, Serpent add shims BEHIND the thrust bearing (opposite way to add shim compare to HPI R40 Centax clutch methrod) and in front of the thrust bearing spacer and screws.

That, I need to try tonight....

P.S. R40 Centax is more like the Serpent Centax 2/3 system, the rctek is for the originial Centax 1 system, that is for the oldie like me to bring back the old centax memory use only.

Last edited by Rookie Solara; 07-01-2004 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:52 AM   #3343
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Also, do you guys know that the thrust bearing from the R40 centax, both O-RING are having different inner diameter just like Serpent or Mugen Thrust bearing....? And the larger diameter one are suppose to go in first (toward flywheel) and the smaller diameter one are facing outside.

I didn't see HPI manual mentioned that, don't know that matters or not, but on Serpent and Mugen's manuel, they both mentioned it and it must go in to the right direction.
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Old 07-01-2004, 07:38 PM   #3344
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Default two r 40's for sale

if anyone is interested, i have two r 40's for sale.one is box stock with a hpi 12xrs motor for that has never been broken in and the second has the same motor with a ltwt upper deck the graphite f/r shock towers ltwt 2-speed assem. the price is $200.00 for each and if you buy both i will have a ton of extra parts that i will let go for $75.00.
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Old 07-01-2004, 08:52 PM   #3345
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rookie Solara
but I want to know, should I stick with the 0.8mm stock black shim behind the collet and add/remove shims in front..?
You always need a shim between the collet and the front engine bearing. Do not use a thin shim like 0.1 mm against the front bearing if you have to.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rookie Solara
And last night, I have to do BOTH........collet shim ended up to 1mm and add a 0.4mm before bearing and 0.8mm before thrust bearing............STILL.........ended up 0.45mm gap different, which I don't really satisfried with, I want to shorted it to 0.25mm to 0.35mm range.....which is very easy to set on all of my Serpent Centax.
Simple. If you want to set your clutch gap to 0.35 mm, then you need to add 0.1 mm shim in the front where the thrust bearings are. I believe you need to take out 0.1 mm from the 0.4 mm before the bearing.
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