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Old 04-04-2004, 04:43 PM   #2326
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Sleeper
It's funny you would say that because today was openning day for us and I had major problems with my clutch. It slipped something terrible. Unlike you though, this isn't my first time out with the R40. It ran great at the end of last season.

I got the clutch to work by cleaning the clutch bell and scuffing it up with sandpaper but,,, it's still slips alittle.

I have asked this before but got no response. Is there a standard 2 shoe or 3 shoe clutch that can be used on the R40?

I know some people are using the Kawahara clutch for the Mtx-3 but I don't know if that is a centax or standard clutch?
I dont know of a normal centrafugal clutch for the HPI.

Centax clutches do require some maintenance the scuffing you describe is required every now and then. Frankly the clutch pad is designed to slip a little. It is a teflon pad. If you want more bite change the pad. See above.
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Old 04-04-2004, 08:42 PM   #2327
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ptp, i was thinking the same on the clutch. i looked at the reflex gears in my shop and i am thinking that they might work. you might take a look at that possibility at your lhs.
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Old 04-04-2004, 08:54 PM   #2328
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I think I have to share my opinion about 'PIVOT BALLS 101" here...

I drove Serpent, NTC3 and built a R40 before (all using pivot balls suspension)......and from all these time, I understand one thing.....BENT pillow balls ARE MUCH MUCH better then sheared/snaped pivot balls.....

When you have bent pivot balls, your car will have less steering but still drivable or at least finish your race....if you have a big lead, so you can still win the race.

Titaninum, aluminum alloy (if there is one) or other material pivot balls are lighter...and lighter = lighter material or less material.......if you are using those GPM or similar Titanium pillow balls, you are probably using some PLASTIC pillow balls. But I would not recommand that, because almost 10 out of 10 alum/Titan. pivot balls that I used or i had seen other used werel ended up snaped or sheared at the ball/stud area.

When you car hit the board or other cars....SOMETHING must take the impact....you cannot expect there is a car that is BULLET PROOF...if there is one, that company will not survive in this RC business.......for example, I modified my NTC3 will the MTX3 steel metal pillow balls.....yes, NO MORE bent pillow balls, but in returem I had about 6 broken steering knuckles and broken suspension arms.....

Now, when my NTC3 steering arm hitting the board, wit the stock metal pillow balls and no mod made.....it bent the pillow ball and that is very TYPICAL on all NTC3 user, and on your R40 case...it should be LESS to happen cause the stud of the pillow balls are little bigger diameter then the NTC3 one..I bent almost 20 plus pillow balls on my NTC3.

And on my Serpent, their pillow balls are garantee BULLET PROOF (not the alum one, the stock metal one)....I never bent one or snaped, but, I had X number of steering knuckles replace and X number of front suspension arms replaced and X numbers of snaped front shock shaft.....again, no bent pillow balls.

When you say you want to get something stronger....there are nothing stronger then the OEM steel pivot balls (OK, if you find someone can make you a 100% Titanium alloy material made pillow balls...)....Typical titanium or aluminum pivot balls for RC will SNAP.....when that happen to you, DNF is what you will have...

Overall, I will stick with the stock one....and just stay away from the board, and good driving will help too.

P.S. I am not sure that is possible.....but when I bent my NTC3 pillow balls, 8 out of 10 times I can BENT then pillow balls back to striaght, so you can give it a try on the R40 pillow balls.....however, you cannot BENT that more then 2 times, it will snap eventually....

Last edited by Rookie Solara; 04-04-2004 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 04-04-2004, 09:55 PM   #2329
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Sleeper
I've noticed those pins sticking out alittle. I didn't think that was causing my problem but I will cut them anyhow.

Manticore,

My end play should be correct, that was the first thing I checked. Thanks for your reply.
I am not sure where is the problem of the R40 centax clutch...? I helped several R40 owner last year to setup their clutch, using the same methrod I did on my Serpent Impulse, 705, 835....same setting and same end play adjustment.....the R40 stock centax clutch works just as good as the Serpent one....in fact, their centax is actually closer to the Centax II design, more easy to adjust then the old Serpent Centax I.

P.S.....on R40 manual, it stated the distance should be between 0.2mm to 0.5mm.......I never follow that....my clutch housing has almost NO SPACE (again, almost) in between the clutch shoes and the housing, as long as I can SPIN the housing freely without rubbing the shoes and still has a little of space left, thats my final setting....if I have to give a number, I would say 0.2mm is my MAX

Also, read thru this centax setting from ROBERT at Ashford....the way he explain how to adjust the clutch spring adjustment are the easiest to understand....read the "Centax Assembly instructions" topic carefully

http://www.ashfordhobby.com/tech04.h...%20Maintenance
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:05 PM   #2330
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I just got done cleaning and rebuilding my clutch. I noticed the pins that the clutch pad slides on were covered with grim and that the pad would not slide easily. I'm guessing that even at full throttle, the shoes could not apply enough pressure on the pad to overcome the adjustment spring AND the grim on the pins.

Also I took out some end play. Like Rookie, I now have just enough space for the housing to spin and not rub against the pad. I figure I can tighten the adjustment spring if the clutch engages to soon.
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:18 PM   #2331
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Sleeper
I just got done cleaning and rebuilding my clutch. I noticed the pins that the clutch pad slides on were covered with grim and that the pad would not slide easily. I'm guessing that even at full throttle, the shoes could not apply enough pressure on the pad to overcome the adjustment spring AND the grim on the pins.

Also I took out some end play. Like Rookie, I now have just enough space for the housing to spin and not rub against the pad. I figure I can tighten the adjustment spring if the clutch engages to soon.
Actually you will find that lesser endplay will enhance the slipping feel of your clutch. The clutch progresses slower at lower RPMs and without clutch engagement the RPMs will pick up quicker and quicker until it engages. But basically 0.2mm endplay the clutch will come out at lower RPM and start to slip against the bell fairly quickly (even with a tight adjuster nut). At around 0.5mm endplay the clutch has a long way to come out and will catch harder. Kinda a crappy explaination.

In any event if you are looking for a punchy clutch go to 0.5mm endplay.
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:59 PM   #2332
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AMGRacer,

I understand what you are saying but at the same time I sort-of disagree with ya

Yes,,, with a .2mm end play, the shoe will contact to bell sooner and at a lower rpm. But I don't think there will be more slipping because of that. At a .5mm end play, the shoe will be spininng faster when it contacts the bell and thus more likely to slip.

Think of a top fuel dragster. One driver pops the clutch at 1000 rpms while the other pops the clutch at 2000 rpms. The second driver is smoking the tires and pleasing the crowd but he ain't moving while the first driver didn't smoke the tires but he's half way down the track

Just my opinion...
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Old 04-05-2004, 12:02 AM   #2333
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Sleeper
AMGRacer,

I understand what you are saying but at the same time I sort-of disagree with ya

Yes,,, with a .2mm end play, the shoe will contact to bell sooner and at a lower rpm. But I don't think there will be more slipping because of that. At a .5mm end play, the shoe will be spininng faster when it contacts the bell and thus more likely to slip.

Think of a top fuel dragster. One driver pops the clutch at 1000 rpms while the other pops the clutch at 2000 rpms. The second driver is smoking the tires and pleasing the crowd but he ain't moving while the first driver didn't smoke the tires but he's half way down the track

Just my opinion...
OK mayby I was not clear enough with my explaination. It was kinda crappy In any event it is not a guess in any way. I have been racing centax clutch equipped cars for around 3 years and I can guarantee you what I am saying is right. I played with end floats from .2 to around .7mm and I like 0.3mm myself. But 0.5mm is VERY punchy if you have the rear grip to handle it.
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Old 04-05-2004, 12:13 AM   #2334
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
OK mayby I was not clear enough with my explaination. It was kinda crappy In any event it is not a guess in any way. I have been racing centax clutch equipped cars for around 3 years and I can guarantee you what I am saying is right. I played with end floats from .2 to around .7mm and I like 0.3mm myself. But 0.5mm is VERY punchy if you have the rear grip to handle it.
Ok,, Thanks, I do take your advice seriously. And I'm sure you are right about the .5mm end play.

If you're like me, you like to play around with different settings so I'm going to try what I have now. But first! I gotta see if the damn clutch even works! Haven't fired up my car since I rebuilt the clutch.
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Old 04-05-2004, 01:32 AM   #2335
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Sleeper
Ok,, Thanks, I do take your advice seriously. And I'm sure you are right about the .5mm end play.

If you're like me, you like to play around with different settings so I'm going to try what I have now. But first! I gotta see if the damn clutch even works! Haven't fired up my car since I rebuilt the clutch.
Yep you gotta try it out and see what you like. I did not like a lot of end play myself on my old clutches, but since the HPI is slipping a fair bit I might up the endplay a bit. Then I will try a Mugen grey shoe.
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Old 04-05-2004, 02:57 AM   #2336
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Kawahara make a .8 module comversion for the R40.
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Old 04-05-2004, 03:09 AM   #2337
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From the Kawahara site.
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File Type: jpg z-1601 .8 gear set.jpg (23.6 KB, 126 views)
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Old 04-05-2004, 03:11 AM   #2338
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WoW! An Aftermarket part for the R40 thats not PURPLE!
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Old 04-05-2004, 04:33 AM   #2339
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Sleeper
AMGRacer,

I understand what you are saying but at the same time I sort-of disagree with ya

Yes,,, with a .2mm end play, the shoe will contact to bell sooner and at a lower rpm. But I don't think there will be more slipping because of that. At a .5mm end play, the shoe will be spininng faster when it contacts the bell and thus more likely to slip.

Clutch slip will be more at lower RPM because there is less centrifugal force acting upon the flyweights(more so with lightened flyweights).
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:40 AM   #2340
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amgracer is right endplay sets how hard the clutch engages and the adjuster sets the rpm of engagement

rookie i understand what your saying but i would still like to try the mugen ones you have them all right? can you measure them for me?

last weekend was rough on my car lilrobby can tell you i was in a nasty qualifier where other cars were just smashing me (people who cant stand to get passed) our local track is often refered to as the "bull ring" and this was opening weekend

so i dont expect my car to take a beating like it did this weekend again and if i can strengthen and possibly lighten the car i would like to do it
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