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Old 04-28-2008, 08:39 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by genesisG4 View Post
We are having a discussion about the 200mm nitro touring car class in another thread and the subject of spec motors came up. I had been involved in some spec 1:1 stuff a few years ago and it can be a good thing.
We discussed spec tires as one of the solutions as you can only hook up so much horsepower with a harder compound tire.
Spec motor...maybe, but harder to police that?
Motor claim....there are ways around that with the buddy system so that probably would not work.
I am sure some of you will dislike the idea of spec...but for the sake of the hobby, maybe this should be looked at as a way to decrease cost and increase participation.
In dirt oval, we have a spec engine classes-(We call it Limited) You can only run a box stock OS TG- no extra shimming of head or plug, etc; Basically you run it out of the box-period. At the larger events, hand out fuel is even provided. You show up to tech prior to your race with an empty tank, and the fuel is provided for you. Eliminating the engine and fuel variables has really sparked an interest in the Limited classes. They are our largest, most competitive classes...
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:42 AM   #17
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I am sure we will hear why this will not work...but it sounds logical to me.
See, there's your problem. You're trying to use logic to figure this out. Racing toy cars for bowling trophies has more to do with emotion than it does logic.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:36 AM   #18
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What possible political reason would there be for the IGT class to fail?

The one fatal flaw with the Kyosho IGT class is you have to run a Kyosho IGT. You can't run any other car. It is a good class ( I have one) and can serve as an entry into nitro on road but it's not the next great thing in RC.
The Kyosho IGT Spec class is for Kyosho's cars only.
That's not a flaw, it's a great thing.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:40 PM   #19
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Political opposition to the IGT?
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:22 PM   #20
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I personally don't believe there is "political" opposition to IGT. The only problem I see is limiting a spec class to only one manufacturer, Kyosho. Yes, there is an open class but you can only run Kyosho's car in the "spec" class. Why not give the other manufacturers a chance to run in the "spec" class? What is the benefit to only having one manufacturer? Isn't that a monopoly for Kyosho? How can this be a great thing for the growth of the sport by helping only one manufacturer and throwing all the others into the open class?
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:28 PM   #21
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We are entering our second year of spec nitro this summer. We returned to 20 cars on a wed night after a 3-4 year total exticntion of nitro all together... WE used to run 200mm and 235mm cars and the bubble burst and we had a 3-4 year dry spell...

Here is what we did:
http://users.xplornet.com/~jlagace/nitro/

While we dont get 30-40 entries like we used to 20 is respectable for our area as the racing scene has been struggling...
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:38 PM   #22
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http://luedee.netfirms.com/rco/viewtopic.php?t=1794

As you can see in box stock form with only sorex 36R as the handout tire the push like a sOB but where very forgiving cars to drive....
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:41 PM   #23
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Folks, for us that did run Go-Karts back in the late 70s and early 80s know the problems that WKA and IKF had. It was very bad, the turn out for a race... Once they started to develop spec classes the entries when up... Just to give you an idea, we would get a 120 or so entries at a national event, last year in a non national, we had over 600 entries. Why, because you are have to x engine (we call them motors), x clutch, x tires, x fuel, x pipe... The only thing that could be different is the chassis, and mfg paid for this right for the year to WKA or in this case ROAR. Today you see this development in R/C with the IGT class, running Kyosho only cars... It is not a question you like them or do not.

The bottom line is the club level runs different a national or super regional, and everyone keeps mixing them... Sorry but they are not the same and they need to be treated differently.

Fact, if you are not working to support newbies into R/C in your area, then you are missing the boat.... With the turn over in R/C, you can not continue to make rules that do not support newbies into the hobby.

These are my views based on a very long past in racing, of different forms...

Spec. is a must in order for R/C to stay alive.
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Last edited by bvoltz; 04-29-2008 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Lagace View Post
We are entering our second year of spec nitro this summer. We returned to 20 cars on a wed night after a 3-4 year total exticntion of nitro all together... WE used to run 200mm and 235mm cars and the bubble burst and we had a 3-4 year dry spell...

Here is what we did:
http://users.xplornet.com/~jlagace/nitro/

While we dont get 30-40 entries like we used to 20 is respectable for our area as the racing scene has been struggling...
Yep... I agree you need ot run spec. rules in order to grow club levels...

and to the rest that do not get this.... It is working in a number of clubs... So think what you want... If you do not like and you have racers to support the class, great, keep it, but add a spec. class to support newbies and which your club grow....
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Last edited by bvoltz; 04-29-2008 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:02 AM   #25
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I suppose there are a couple of different goals for 'spec' racing; performance limiting and cost limiting. For a local track/club, both should be considered when developing the class. Primary thrust of attracting newcommers...
I offer such a class in my store (micro track in back of store). It is a brand specific spec class... Carisma M14. It's a hundred bucks and works quite well right out of the box. I allow connector upgrades and wheel bearings.
It hasn't worked out as well as I hoped, but I still think it is a viable concept.
First thing, I had people asking if they could run their Tamiya M class cars in the class!
For a nitro TC class, one might consider a one brand/model class. The OFNA CD3 pro rtr would be a pretty good choice. Allow radio upgrades, but use everything else. It's well equipped and even comes with a starter box.
For the Midwest Series, I added a 1/8 GT class. The goal for this class was to offer a lower cost class with broad appeal. I elected to allow any buggy-based 1/8 on-road car. Rubber tires and .28 or smaller sport engine. I feel IGT only is to restrictive for us. 2 or 3 of our host tracks had allready included the class in this form. If I were to make it IGT only, many new racers would have been excluded from the series. The OFNA GTP is very similar to the IGT and they should play nice together. This will be a 'shakedown' season for us, and I will likely make adjustments to the class parameters for next season. I may decide to go with a spec engine and tire.
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by duneland View Post
I suppose there are a couple of different goals for 'spec' racing; performance limiting and cost limiting. For a local track/club, both should be considered when developing the class. Primary thrust of attracting newcommers...
I offer such a class in my store (micro track in back of store). It is a brand specific spec class... Carisma M14. It's a hundred bucks and works quite well right out of the box. I allow connector upgrades and wheel bearings.
It hasn't worked out as well as I hoped, but I still think it is a viable concept.
First thing, I had people asking if they could run their Tamiya M class cars in the class!
For a nitro TC class, one might consider a one brand/model class. The OFNA CD3 pro rtr would be a pretty good choice. Allow radio upgrades, but use everything else. It's well equipped and even comes with a starter box.
For the Midwest Series, I added a 1/8 GT class. The goal for this class was to offer a lower cost class with broad appeal. I elected to allow any buggy-based 1/8 on-road car. Rubber tires and .28 or smaller sport engine. I feel IGT only is to restrictive for us. 2 or 3 of our host tracks had allready included the class in this form. If I were to make it IGT only, many new racers would have been excluded from the series. The OFNA GTP is very similar to the IGT and they should play nice together. This will be a 'shakedown' season for us, and I will likely make adjustments to the class parameters for next season. I may decide to go with a spec engine and tire.
The fact is your series is a regional thing, and not a club race, which requires a different look to the racers that come out to run with you. Good points...
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:04 PM   #27
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See, there's your problem. You're trying to use logic to figure this out. Racing toy cars for bowling trophies has more to do with emotion than it does logic.
ha...good point
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:10 PM   #28
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I personally don't believe there is "political" opposition to IGT. The only problem I see is limiting a spec class to only one manufacturer, Kyosho. Yes, there is an open class but you can only run Kyosho's car in the "spec" class. Why not give the other manufacturers a chance to run in the "spec" class? What is the benefit to only having one manufacturer? Isn't that a monopoly for Kyosho? How can this be a great thing for the growth of the sport by helping only one manufacturer and throwing all the others into the open class?
I agree that to limit a spec class to one manufacturer is probably not the best idea. Some components need to be spec'd but not everything. I remember the American Speed Association (ASA) short track series did a spec formula and among other things they did a spec chassis center section and let other chassis builders design the rest within the rules....they went to a sealed spec motor. Now, I know the series went bust, but I don't think it was due to their spec formula.
Spec'ing everything is not necessary to make a spec formula work...
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:14 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bvoltz View Post
Folks, for us that did run Go-Karts back in the late 70s and early 80s know the problems that WKA and IKF had. It was very bad, the turn out for a race... Once they started to develop spec classes the entries when up... Just to give you an idea, we would get a 120 or so entries at a national event, last year in a non national, we had over 600 entries. Why, because you are have to x engine (we call them motors), x clutch, x tires, x fuel, x pipe... The only thing that could be different is the chassis, and mfg paid for this right for the year to WKA or in this case ROAR. Today you see this development in R/C with the IGT class, running Kyosho only cars... It is not a question you like them or do not.

The bottom line is the club level runs different a national or super regional, and everyone keeps mixing them... Sorry but they are not the same and they need to be treated differently.

Fact, if you are not working to support newbies into R/C in your area, then you are missing the boat.... With the turn over in R/C, you can not continue to make rules that do not support newbies into the hobby.

These are my views based on a very long past in racing, of different forms...

Spec. is a must in order for R/C to stay alive.
My point exactly...almost every form of motorsports has seen the need to adopt some form of a spec formula to survive and increase participation. RC racing is no different...I think it needs this at least at a club level to survive and increase participation...
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:36 PM   #30
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another thought....there are a few key components that will have the most effect on performance...of them, but not limited to just these would be the obvious engine, pipe, and tires. I would like to see manufacturer support in these areas and help develop "spec" components.
And bodies...no touring car bodies, too swoopy and lets you hook up more motor and tire. If it does not have the aero/downforce that helps eliminate the advantage of trying to cheat with the motor, engine or tires....yah still can't hook it up.
Carb restrictors??

sorry for the multiple responses.........................

Last edited by genesisG4; 04-29-2008 at 08:04 PM.
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