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Old 04-21-2008, 08:23 PM   #76
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I have raced both 1/8 scale and 1/10 scale cars and the 1/10 scale cars have always appear twitchy and nervous where as the 1/8 scale cars appear planted, drive alot smoother in my opinion. I hope that this class shows that the wider tires will improve the cars response to chassis setup and handling. Does anyone know when the conversion kit will go on sale?? Last summer I put a .18 tz in a R-40 everyone said it would be undrivable and it was until I put some extra wide tires on it now it is planted, it habndles really well. I hope this new 220mm class leads to a super outlaw class with OS.18TZ as the power plants.
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Old 04-21-2008, 09:58 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by petevette View Post
Why is the Inferno RTR such a great idea and $400 but not the Associated NTC3 RTR converted to 220mm. You can probably get that combination out the door for the same price. I know that NTC3 isn't a Mugen 4R or a Serpent 720, but if set up right can be competitive especially for a budget racer.
........because a newbie can slam an Inferno off the boards and it will ask for more while a NTC3 will be down for the count and a newbie wants to run not wrench all day..........only after some time racing and getting deeper into the hobby......that wrenching becomes enjoyable............the GT can also be ran on garbage parking lot tracks that will frustrate a NTC3 racer..........
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:40 PM   #78
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Hey, I tought this wider tires conversion don't need new cars, right ? .... the costs are only GPR tires, bumper and body.
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:19 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by asw7576 View Post
Hey, I tought this wider tires conversion don't need new cars, right ? .... the costs are only GPR tires, bumper and body.
That would be correct and confirmed. The tires take the track to 220MM wide and the only other added expense is the Lola body and bumper assembly. I've talk to a few racers her locally in San Antonio, Texas and so far they are of the same opinion as I. While the change over looks pretty cool they don't seem enclined to get involved with another class within a class. Our 200MM class is pretty good here. We generally race every Saturday and have a 200MM Sportsman Class for the Newbies and a 200MM Expert Class. Lately it's been 2 heats of 6 to 10 racers per class. All in all we like the 200MM class as is.

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Old 04-24-2008, 07:02 PM   #80
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Sorry guys, I accidently started a second post related to this one. Kawahara calls GPR a 'New Category', which it is, but I used the term 1/10th GPR a new CLASS, which is a bit more familiar, at least among racers.

Anyway, my thoughts are that 1/10th nitro cars are indeed overpowered for the wheels they drive on. The wheels are too small.

Novarossi states horsepower ratings for it's engines in the 1.6~1.7hp range. At 1750 grams for weight that puts the car almost on par with 1/8th scale in terms of hp-vs-weight as 1/8th engines put out 2.6~2.8hp with cars weighing 2500 grams+ But 1/8th has considerably more contact with the ground.

For argument's sake, say one 1mm of tire touches the pavement:

1/10: 2 x 26mm + 2 x 30mm = 112mm
1/8th: 2 x 38 + 2 x 60mm = 196mm

You've definitely got a lot more friction with 1/8th which means more power is getting to the ground. For me, I find that 1/8th is a a lot more stable as well. 1/10th requires a lot more tuning to match traction conditions.

The GPR class has 30mm fronts + 40mm rears, or a total of 140mm of tire-to-pavement contact and you can see in this video of a friend I uploaded to YouTube it makes a difference.

Here is a video of a V-One-RRR lapping a 960:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBOah7AoHaU

The downside is definitely fuel consumption. The friction is going to eat up more gas. During the test we got more than 5 minutes out of the car. But will smaller 26/30mm tires fuel consumption is close to 6 mins+ This isn't a very good estimate of true consumption but the point is, bigger tires mean more fuel. Ideally 1/10th GPT cars need 90cc tanks rather than 75cc. If you race this new class, be very careful with your fuel.

Engine power has been steadily increasing in 1/10th yet the tires stay the same. Sure, settings help but unless you want to get into 3 or 4 gear centax transmissions, the power is getting wasted. This new semi-class seems like a happy medium.

Just my two cents.

BTW, if you're interested I think I can get a hold of a few GPR kits. PM me.

Rob


The car is damn quick but the engine hasn't changed.
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Old 04-24-2008, 08:41 PM   #81
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Awesome video, but that sedan driver was much better than the 8th guy. With or without the conversion all it takes is a better driver to lap an 8th onroad. Great points on the whole idea though to me, not to throw hatred on the class, still is no reason to resort to wider tires. There are plenty of guys who race with highly modified engines and have such neat driving lines. They simply been practicing their driving skills and learning the track. Gotta admit the cars look pretty sweet...like mini 8ths, but with the way sedan has to be driven, the larger tires and extra traction sucking up run time that'd be costly for a main.
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:06 PM   #82
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. . . Great points on the whole idea though to me, not to throw hatred on the class, still is no reason to resort to wider tires. There are plenty of guys who race with highly modified engines and have such neat driving lines. They simply been practicing their driving skills and learning the track. Gotta admit the cars look pretty sweet...like mini 8ths, but with the way sedan has to be driven, the larger tires and extra traction sucking up run time that'd be costly for a main.
For me I think it's more the lola body thing over the tires that may hinder this idea more than anything.

I mean if tomorrow you expanded your standard 30 to 33mm and 26 to 28 and that gave you a faster car, more grip, and more stability with a small fuel penalty you could fix by adding 5cc to the fuel tank I could see a lot of drivers moving to that happily. It'd be kind of like going from a 75MHz radio to 2.4GHz, brushed to brushless servos, NiMH to Lipo, non-turbo to turbo crankshafts/glowplugs, plastic to carbon fibre, etc. All changes that have been important but not dramatic. All changes where drivers felt they didn't need to abandon their investment in what they like.

Kawahara may have the right idea in that their conversion uses standard 1/10th cars but I'd agree with another posts that there are already too many classes and drivers may feel class fatigue and skip 220mm. The moving from GT to Lola will probably feel too abrupt and slow or kill GPR. Some guys just like GT no matter how many advantages Lola may have.

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Old 04-25-2008, 12:34 AM   #83
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For me I think it's more the lola body thing over the tires that may hinder this idea more than anything.

I mean if tomorrow you expanded your standard 30 to 33mm and 26 to 28 and that gave you a faster car, more grip, and more stability with a small fuel penalty you could fix by adding 5cc to the fuel tank I could see a lot of drivers moving to that happily. It'd be kind of like going from a 75MHz radio to 2.4GHz, brushed to brushless servos, NiMH to Lipo, non-turbo to turbo crankshafts/glowplugs, plastic to carbon fibre, etc. All changes that have been important but not dramatic. All changes where drivers felt they didn't need to abandon their investment in what they like.

Kawahara may have the right idea in that their conversion uses standard 1/10th cars but I'd agree with another posts that there are already too many classes and drivers may feel class fatigue and skip 220mm. The moving from GT to Lola will probably feel too abrupt and slow or kill GPR. Some guys just like GT no matter how many advantages Lola may have.

Rob
I have a non race car ( mtx3 ) with 200mm front trackwidth and 205mm rear trackwidth. With such track width the tires still can fit inside standard 200mm body. I use Kawahara tires 26mm and 32mm with 63mm and 66mm tire diameter, respectively.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:35 AM   #84
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I think the cars look awesome. I would run them if the class would grow. But the only thing is the cost of the engines. Nitro touring is not a cheap class to run
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:44 AM   #85
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The daytona/rolex idea would only result in people being upset. More often than not, a sedan with less cornering force (grip) as well as less power coming out of a corner will result in the sedan being railed.. even if the sedan is turning better lap times overall.
I see your point but even in the same class there can and usually is a speed difference and the faster cars occassionally run over the slower cars.
My only point with the idea of running this class with the touring cars is that on a club level if you are struggling with car count and have 3-5 cars in the class and another 2 guys would run this conversion, why not throw them in with the touring cars and score them separately? If both classes grow enought then split them into separate classes. Don't start out making a separate class for the 1/10 GPR...then you are making the touring car guys have to make a decision on which class they want to run...give them a choice of which car and run them together and score them separately...you have touring cars and prototypes on the track together running for separate points.
This conversion could bring in some new people and bring back some old people because it is something new or they just like their looks!...think outside the box and accomodate them and your club may even add some new participants.
I obviously do not know what the speed difference would be between the touring cars and the GPR cars...I suppose if it is too much of a difference there could be issues?

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Old 04-26-2008, 01:21 PM   #86
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I think it's possible to mix ( as long as everyone has agree to it ).

In my recent race ( in my home track )...... in pursuit of saving time so we can go home early, the race director joined together drivers from group B and group C, so there were 14 cars racing in one final. It must be nice experiences for group C drivers doing racing for 30 minutes . The race director then split the race result accordingly after the race.
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:21 PM   #87
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All that will happen is profit for a company. There will be no "new class". They been using wider tires on sedans in the past to bash with being most tracks didn't abide by ROAR/IFMAR rules. You don't need such wide tires to handle sedan. Mugen/Serpent/Kyosho and other high end tourers didn't build their cars with the intent of planting a .18TZ in there. Know who will benefit from this class? Kawahara making the $$ off everyone who wants to try this class out and then OS engines being the .18TZ will be a popular choice for those who need this engine to win against other people driving .12s. Sedan will never die out. The only reason the 235mm class died out was the cost factor. By the time you get setup for one it'd equal the cost of racing the 1/8th class. I don't care if they run this class and yes the pictures do look nice, but I'd rather just pay my $10 a pair for the tires rather than how much those wider tires plan to be. A lola body looks nice though there is no need for them. Using wider tires for traction on a dust track is a pathetic excuse. Get together with leaf blowers, clean the track, lay down traction additive or soda/suger water and you will be fine. Hell get the track sealed while your at it and things will be fine.
.................HarKonner we didnt put modified TZ.18 in our cars to beat small block .12,s we did to get more speed out of our cars and the boys who were silly enough to challenge us with their 12's got beat.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:16 PM   #88
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Really? Drag racing doesn't count. Like I said before if you put a .18TZ in your car to beat them, then you really need to work on driving with a .12. Then again you told me your place lets you run anything so whatever I could care less.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:55 PM   #89
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Who said anything about drag racing?? Like I said in post 87 we did it to make our cars faster we have replaced our .12's with .18's and we run against ourselves. The boys with 12's know better they challenged us and we have beat them all. And yes we are a bunch of outlaws we run real motors , modified TZ.18's. HarKonnen you have voiced your opinion you don't like the 220mm class but you are starting to sound like a broken record. Let people decide for themselves instead of trying to force,impose your will on the rc consumer. Seems like you fear change you are going to end up like the dinosaur extinct.

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Old 04-27-2008, 02:43 AM   #90
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Seems to me that you need to release your grip a little as your head is going purple!
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