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Old 04-18-2008, 08:51 PM   #61
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Serpent currently have parts for the 720 to convert to this class, front Lola type front bumper, floating rear body mount just like the 8th scales and are readily available, but I don't think they will make one for the 705, which the 705 have long been discontinued, but I think the front Lola bumper for the 720 will fit the 705.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:30 PM   #62
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Guys, I understand the pitfalls of too many classes, however, we must look at the pitfalls of a stagnant class as well. We don't make the rules, the market does and people will buy what they like with or without rationale. This hobby needs to continually refresh itself or people loose interest. I agree that 1/8 scale and 1/10 touring classes are great, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for others. Instead of trying to get all current drivers to run the same class, we need to figure out ways of getting new people into the hobby. One way is to have new classes that attract different kinds of racers.

I know people in off road racing that would only race monster trucks. They were die hards. If it wasn't because of the monster truck class they would have never got involved in RC. After racing monster trucks, some naturally went to other classes that were more competitive like 1/8 buggy. Eventually when the class ran its course and died out many of them switch to stadium trucks or went to truggies. The end result is that there are more drivers racing at the local track now then before the monster truck class came and went. Some people got out, but many of them stayed and race different classes. The end result is the club is now larger.

The trick is not to limit the classes, rather to grow the hobby. The 220mm lola body car might just attract new young racers that are currently not to excited about racing the 200mm sedans. The strongest classes will always survive, regardless of what happens. Look at 1/8 on and off road. Both have been around forever and continue to be the backbone of the industry. Lets focus on growing the hobby. Instead of bickering about the class, lets promote the hobby. Contact your local media and ask them if they are interested in covering a local race or large event. I just did that recently with our local media and they decided to do a write up on it. Should come out in a week or so. Hopefully this will help promote our local tracks and racing in general.

By the way, I am a victim of the 235mm class. I spent a fortune on that car just to watch the class fade away. Maybe the timing wasn't right. Either way, the market makes the rules not me. If our industry doesn't re-invent itself, it will die. If the manufacturers can't figure out ways of making this hobby financially rewarding, they would get out of the business. Then where would we be? Just my two cents worth.

Hope to read some updates on how the cars do with the wider tires and Lola body. I am intrigued myself. I guess that is no surprise since I have always like the 235 class and this gets me close to it.
This guy know what RC hobby should be. Thanks pete !!!

Keep it grow on club level, make the rules less restrictive for some hobbyist & beginers for special occasions. ( these people are not 100% hardcore racer yet ) . I think mixing lola & sedan is positive thinking instead of having 5 sedan making a class, and 3 lola making a class.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:23 AM   #63
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i'm looking in this way, the impact of 220mm class in nitro tc may not be as biggest as the change from rubber to foam tyres, but due to the big market of 1/10 tc car, this 220mm class only need to change tyres and shell (set-up for sure ) no new car/parts, maybe we can give it a try (like the IGT) and see the different between two class. Personally, the handling of a 200mm ntc car with VDS bodyshell will be better. Let see how the car run in the comming up promote race. By the way, if there are some big name/top class driver invite to drive, there maybe a different story.

forgive my poor english.
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Old 04-19-2008, 05:53 AM   #64
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I'm pretty sure most clubs will not run sedan and lola bodies together simply because the sedan guys won't want to get scooped up and flipped over the boards by the lola bodies.

Those of you thinking that this will help grow the sport must be smoking some good stuff. If someone comes to a race and they're watching 200mm sedan and not considering getting one, do you really think that if you show them one with wider tires and a lola body that all the sudden, they'll think, "Hey, I would have no problem dropping $1,500 to get into this type of racing!" The Inferno GT is $400 RTR. I'm pretty sure a new person would be much more interested in that. Please people, put the pipe down!
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Old 04-20-2008, 01:39 AM   #65
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and if you put your IGT in race mod, maybe way far $400 (like the V one S) let the user choose what they want.
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Old 04-20-2008, 07:24 PM   #66
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I'm pretty sure most clubs will not run sedan and lola bodies together simply because the sedan guys won't want to get scooped up and flipped over the boards by the lola bodies.

Those of you thinking that this will help grow the sport must be smoking some good stuff. If someone comes to a race and they're watching 200mm sedan and not considering getting one, do you really think that if you show them one with wider tires and a lola body that all the sudden, they'll think, "Hey, I would have no problem dropping $1,500 to get into this type of racing!" The Inferno GT is $400 RTR. I'm pretty sure a new person would be much more interested in that. Please people, put the pipe down!
JetMD, I know your trying to be funny with the "smoking good stuff" comment, but this forum is about expressing our thoughts on many different topics. Let's just be civil and exchange ideas instead of making cracks that tend to escalate a discussion.

To you point of the Inferno GT regarding the cost of the RTR, why stop there? If money is what determines what people buy at start up, don't you think a class of toy store bought remote controls would be even better? They are much cheaper then $400. I know there would be frequency conflicts among the many problems, my point is that people who get into the hobby generally find the way of spending money on what attracts them. I pose this question for thought. Would you pay $400 for a class that you think is okay, or a little more for a class that you think is awesome? I think your 1.5K figure for 220mm car is a little inflated. I know I could put together a RTR 220mm race car, for much under that. Without too much thought, I would even look at the NTC3 RTR which is $350 and then add the body, tires and bumper. I am sure a much better 220mm race car can be put together way under the price of 1.5K.

With all that said, the majority of the controversy with this subject is around having a 220mm class and a 200mm class and the repercussion of one over the other. I think the issue of someone trying to get into the hobby and shelling out the money is of a lesser issue. I merely stated and will re-emphasize that market makes the decisions not us. I know we like to analyze and predict what works and doesn't, but the reality is that people will buy what appeals to them. We are just on for the ride with regards to what the market does.

I am not sure I would run in the 220mm class, so I am not advocating it, but should one pop up at our local track I would like to consider it. I stand on the sidelines and watch what happens in our hobby and jump in when something appeals and spectate when something doesn't. I always try to maintain a broad perspective of the hobby not just a racer's perspective.

Sorry guys, just more of my crazy opinions.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:36 PM   #67
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Well, okay. So, to prove your point, what did we all start racing with? How much did you spend on your first car that you took to a track and raced? If it was a long time ago, was that alot of money for that time?
The reason I ask is because myself and everyone I know that races started out with some kind of ready to run type car. And I feel that it's probably a universal thing. So to get people interested in the hobby, you need an affordable, attractive, strong, and fast RTR car and the Inferno type is it. Adding wider tires and a lola body to a car that IS $400 in the box, add motor/exhaust, radio, conversion kit, starter box, and everything else will not appeal to a newbie no matter how much bargain shopping you do. If you can get all that brand new for under $400, you must of stole it.

Money is EVERYTHING to a newbie and until you guys realize that, you're going to continue to see ideas like this kill this hobby.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:45 PM   #68
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I seriously don't understand why all the negativity towards something that doesn't seem to interest you. This body and tire package wasn't started to save the hobby but like all new things people will decide if it is for them or not. I just came back from the RCX show and I can tell you there are many segments to this hobby and some of it is not for me but a ton of people seem to enjoy those other segment...
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:46 AM   #69
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..... This body and tire package wasn't started to save the hobby ......
Unfortunately, there are a few between the two threads on this topic that are trying to sell it as a savior to the hobby/sport. Many of us here people in one breathe saying that there are too many classes out there to run and are diluting the racers, yet, they create another class and some tout it as a saving grace to racing. Shoring up the existing classes is what should be done. Learning how to set-up and drive your car is being replaced by buying wider tires and lola bodies because some are too lazy to make adjustments to the track conditions set before them. More and more racers are wanting things made easy for them upfront instead of putting forth some effort to learn how to make your car easier to drive.
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:00 AM   #70
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I seriously don't understand why all the negativity towards something that doesn't seem to interest you. This body and tire package wasn't started to save the hobby but like all new things people will decide if it is for them or not. I just came back from the RCX show and I can tell you there are many segments to this hobby and some of it is not for me but a ton of people seem to enjoy those other segment...
I have no problem at all with "new" things. Nitro r/c dirt bikes are incredibly cool. I also like the F1 nitro 1:8 scale. Inferno RTR for $400 is an incredible idea. Things like this will bring new people to the hobby.

The problem I have is making a small change to an existing class to create another class. It hurts the hobby because it splits a class in two so instead of having 1 full class, now you have 2 half-full classes no matter which track you go to, this will happen. This idea also will not bring new people to racing because it IS too expensive. And, one of the two classes will eventually die off which has happened in the past.

The negativity comes from spending alot of my personal time to help this hobby grow only to see an idea like this come along that I know will hurt the hobby as a whole. I've said my peace enough though so i'm done. You guys can go ahead and talk about how cool it is now.
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Old 04-21-2008, 12:28 PM   #71
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JetMD, before you go, I want to ask you a question. I am not being sarcastic in anyway. Why is the Inferno RTR such a great idea and $400 but not the Associated NTC3 RTR converted to 220mm. You can probably get that combination out the door for the same price. I know that NTC3 isn't a Mugen 4R or a Serpent 720, but if set up right can be competitive especially for a budget racer.

I know a guy that is now racing touring that was exposed to this along time ago. Back then he wasn't interested and didn't get involved. However, when the drifters came out he was intrigued and got into it. Afterwards, he ended up running touring and still does today. That is one person that may have not gotten into the hobby if the right class didn't get his attention.

We have probably beaten this issue to death, but just curious if you think the NTC3 converted to 220mm could be a budget entry level racer for that class.
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Old 04-21-2008, 02:05 PM   #72
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The NTC3 is not a good option for a true beginner. I should know, it was the 2nd car I owned. It was better than my first one as far as speed goes, but, it was very fragile when it came to diff cases, and "a" arms. The Inferno is an 1:8 buggy chassis and it's solid. It won't break the first time you tap a wall where as the NTC3 will. That is something that really discourages beginners.

I just can't see someone who's never raced before, watching a stock NTC3 run and not be interested in the least, then watch a 220mm NTC3 and seriously consider it. For someone who's never raced before, how could they be completely uniterested in one and then completely interested the other. I just don't see the difference from a brand new guys perspective. For those of us that have been running TC, sure, it makes it look more like an 1:8 scale so it's refreshingly different. Not the same ole' group of Stratus 3.1's running around. But I see things on a larger scale and feel that ideas like this one will only hurt the sport.
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Old 04-21-2008, 02:40 PM   #73
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Fair enough, I see you point. I am not in complete agreement, but that is okay.

I didn't realize the NTC3 was that fragile. Looks like I will never be able to drive one. Heck, I had a 720 and I swear that thing would shatter if there was a cross wind on the track.

Maybe that car is for the experts, not for the guys that check the strength of the boards.

Anyways, enjoyed exchanging view with you.

Good luck on the track!
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Old 04-21-2008, 05:46 PM   #74
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Thanks Pete and same to you. If you thought the 720 was bad, you should of seen the 710. I'm not a serpent guy but I believe they came out with the 720 because the 710 was too fragile. I think the 710 was built to be as light as possible. A friend had one and with no motor or electrics, that thing felt light as a feather. I guess we're off topic now, sorry everyone.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:58 PM   #75
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Anyone have any prices on these kawahara parts..?
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