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Old 04-17-2008, 03:57 PM   #46
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When you said all that, are you presenting your opinion to be consume for your own rc club or for the whole world ?

I check your organisation vorra.org, and read the race report, and I can understand why you made the sentiments to a japanese company trying to make a new class. Why ? because your club only have 20 people racing in it, and sometimes only 1 group doing the racing. ........ I know it's going to hurt the club itself by sharing 200mm class with 220mm class.

Lets compare to other states, other rc clubs, or other countries which might have more people show up racing weekly on sunday. There could be enough racers coordinating among themselves to accept 220mm class. ....... you never know right ?

My point is, lets be neutral.

Peace !!
Yes, it would be worthless for my local club that I support with my own personal time. I'm glad you noticed that. I do race at other places as well. But think about how many big clubs are out there as well as how many small clubs like mine. Which has more people? It probably evens out. So instead of thinking about what you think looks cool or would be easier to drive, think about what this would do for the r/c community. Would the end result of this be good for us as a whole, or bad? I'm thinking bad. Just look at electric. There are way too many options out there for them and that is hurting them. An indoor electric track west of here just closed. Another example is when I bought an electric 1/12 to run in the winter. Drove all the way to the track west of here and we didn't have enough for a race. I didn't go back. I checked another track east of here and they didn't have enough to run the class either. So I got frustrated and sold it. With only one company supporting this right now, i'm hoping no one else will and this will fade away.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:30 PM   #47
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Now that I really like! Ok guys, why won't this work?
So.......to me it seems like a great idea to run mixed classes together.
Separate scoring and separate points.
Touring or GT and Prototypes with this new conversion....
It sure seems to me that this method could solve at least a couple issues.
1) Increase car count, some new guys might join in and a few might convert
2) Why is this not implemented in other scenarios as it could also shorten up the program
Like I said before, who wants to race in a class with 3 cars in it?
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:31 PM   #48
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Nitro don't need another class...200mm and 1/8th are just perfectly fine. CRC made wide foams like that 4 years ago to convert TC to wider chassis just like this and never works.
..................What do you mean it never worked?? I tried some of those 35mm CRC tires on my Fusion and it changed it from a car that was undrivable to one that handles.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:57 PM   #49
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Because passing slower cars seems to be voodoo with out ramming into them. 235 any one? 3 port sedan or run what you brung with "Lola" bodies. On road is continually trying to reinvent itself.
1/8th off-road...FUN and dirty.
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:01 PM   #50
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I must have missed something here, this is not a new class, in 2006 ROAR ran what they called 1/10th Fuel Open at the Nationals. In addition there were several other major races that ran the same class.

I remember when Josh Cyrul was tuning up for the Nationals he was running the car at Toledo and could go darn near as fast a 1/8 th car, downforce really helps!

The car was a sedan with a GTP body, all you needed to do was change body post and the front bumper and you had one.

The class died a quick death after maybe two years of interest.
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Old 04-17-2008, 06:06 PM   #51
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All that will happen is profit for a company. There will be no "new class". They been using wider tires on sedans in the past to bash with being most tracks didn't abide by ROAR/IFMAR rules. You don't need such wide tires to handle sedan. Mugen/Serpent/Kyosho and other high end tourers didn't build their cars with the intent of planting a .18TZ in there. Know who will benefit from this class? Kawahara making the $$ off everyone who wants to try this class out and then OS engines being the .18TZ will be a popular choice for those who need this engine to win against other people driving .12s. Sedan will never die out. The only reason the 235mm class died out was the cost factor. By the time you get setup for one it'd equal the cost of racing the 1/8th class. I don't care if they run this class and yes the pictures do look nice, but I'd rather just pay my $10 a pair for the tires rather than how much those wider tires plan to be. A lola body looks nice though there is no need for them. Using wider tires for traction on a dust track is a pathetic excuse. Get together with leaf blowers, clean the track, lay down traction additive or soda/suger water and you will be fine. Hell get the track sealed while your at it and things will be fine.
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:58 PM   #52
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Get together with leaf blowers, clean the track, lay down traction additive or soda/suger water and you will be fine. Hell get the track sealed while your at it and things will be fine.
Some people don't want to pay sugar water when they play or practice, but they expect other people to pay for that.

The amount of sugar water sprayed onto the track determine the level of grip. $20 bucks worth of sugar water is not the same grip as $40 buck gets.

To use wider tires or standard tires, is people choice. Nevertheless, wider tires help to control the car become easier to drive, especially when grip is limited.

To use OS.18TZ or .12 engines, again is people choice. You don't have to laugh to see people with OS18TZ in their car. ( Coz, you are not going to see them anyway on sunday race ).

RC is anybody hobby. Some people have RC hobby for serious racing. Some people have RC hobby for self satisfaction ex. modify car to the ultimate. Some people have RC hobby for bashing and get the most fun from it, and there are more other reasons to have RC as a hobby. As for myself, I play RC for serious racing ( but not that serious ) while getting the most fun from it. Only time will tell GPR class will live or not. Personally, I think GPR class could be fun to drive.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:58 AM   #53
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asw7576,

The main problem that some of us have is that the first things we hear is that it makes the car easier to drive. This sounds like some don't want to work on their driving skills or car setups. They just want a car that is plug-n-play (made easy for them without putting in some work at it). It took many of us months to find setups that work on different tracks with different driving conditions. Also, many of us worked months at learning how to drive our cars similar to the Ralph Burchs, Mike Swaugers, and Josh Cyruls of the scene. Too many racers try to take the easy way instead of working at improvement through sweat and experimentation. This is how the aforementioned guys did it. If folks are serious or semi-serious about being a competitive racer, learn how to set-up the car, learn throttle control, learn how to enter and exit corners or passing slower traffic cleanly. Learn how to choose the right tires for the right track conditions and don't be scared to change them as the conditions change. Maybe tuning down your engine or using a less powerful engine should be considered (quit trying to out-HP the next guy). To me, just making it easy because of being lazy just is not fun.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:15 AM   #54
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I think this will be more a hot item for parking racers. The sight of the wide rear tires (tuning) as the better grip is wanted a lot with these gus.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:46 AM   #55
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asw7576,

The main problem that some of us have is that the first things we hear is that it makes the car easier to drive. This sounds like some don't want to work on their driving skills or car setups. They just want a car that is plug-n-play (made easy for them without putting in some work at it). It took many of us months to find setups that work on different tracks with different driving conditions. Also, many of us worked months at learning how to drive our cars similar to the Ralph Burchs, Mike Swaugers, and Josh Cyruls of the scene. Too many racers try to take the easy way instead of working at improvement through sweat and experimentation. This is how the aforementioned guys did it. If folks are serious or semi-serious about being a competitive racer, learn how to set-up the car, learn throttle control, learn how to enter and exit corners or passing slower traffic cleanly. Learn how to choose the right tires for the right track conditions and don't be scared to change them as the conditions change. Maybe tuning down your engine or using a less powerful engine should be considered (quit trying to out-HP the next guy). To me, just making it easy because of being lazy just is not fun.
Oh please don't you know the only reason those guys are fast is because they get all the super secret factory stuff the rest of us can't get, and they cheat?!

[/SARCASM]
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:01 PM   #56
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The daytona/rolex idea would only result in people being upset. More often than not, a sedan with less cornering force (grip) as well as less power coming out of a corner will result in the sedan being railed.. even if the sedan is turning better lap times overall.
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:05 PM   #57
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Oh please don't you know the only reason those guys are fast is because they get all the super secret factory stuff the rest of us can't get, and they cheat?!

[/SARCASM]
You got me on this one, I stand corrected!!!
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:24 PM   #58
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ASW - The thing is, this isn't a new idea. This has been done way back long before many of these engines on the market for nitro sedans were born. Thats why I don't see it as something to be so excited about and thinking this will bring a new class. They could've done this years ago, but it wasn't necessary then nor is it now...lol. They been using lola bodies long in the past as well as the front bumper. Kyosho was one of the few companies selling their VoneR pro and RR kit with this setup AND the floating rear body mount to enhance the performance of the car.

As far as track clean up it takes dedicated drivers to do such. One of my tracks in NY was shutdown because drivers didn't want to donate and contribute their time and effort to support the track. Thankfully my home track is still available being there are drivers who care. All it takes is a little time. Surely everyone can be able to get some soda hell even if its flat and use it to spray down a parking lot or so. That or someone has a leaf blower in the garage they can spare some time to help clean a lot. It's not too much to do anyway. Whatever though anyone wants to give it a try go right ahead, but don't think it will be a popular class that will necessarily grow to out number another. It's pretty much like running an outlaw class.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:51 PM   #59
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Guys, I understand the pitfalls of too many classes, however, we must look at the pitfalls of a stagnant class as well. We don't make the rules, the market does and people will buy what they like with or without rationale. This hobby needs to continually refresh itself or people loose interest. I agree that 1/8 scale and 1/10 touring classes are great, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for others. Instead of trying to get all current drivers to run the same class, we need to figure out ways of getting new people into the hobby. One way is to have new classes that attract different kinds of racers.

I know people in off road racing that would only race monster trucks. They were die hards. If it wasn't because of the monster truck class they would have never got involved in RC. After racing monster trucks, some naturally went to other classes that were more competitive like 1/8 buggy. Eventually when the class ran its course and died out many of them switch to stadium trucks or went to truggies. The end result is that there are more drivers racing at the local track now then before the monster truck class came and went. Some people got out, but many of them stayed and race different classes. The end result is the club is now larger.

The trick is not to limit the classes, rather to grow the hobby. The 220mm lola body car might just attract new young racers that are currently not to excited about racing the 200mm sedans. The strongest classes will always survive, regardless of what happens. Look at 1/8 on and off road. Both have been around forever and continue to be the backbone of the industry. Lets focus on growing the hobby. Instead of bickering about the class, lets promote the hobby. Contact your local media and ask them if they are interested in covering a local race or large event. I just did that recently with our local media and they decided to do a write up on it. Should come out in a week or so. Hopefully this will help promote our local tracks and racing in general.

By the way, I am a victim of the 235mm class. I spent a fortune on that car just to watch the class fade away. Maybe the timing wasn't right. Either way, the market makes the rules not me. If our industry doesn't re-invent itself, it will die. If the manufacturers can't figure out ways of making this hobby financially rewarding, they would get out of the business. Then where would we be? Just my two cents worth.

Hope to read some updates on how the cars do with the wider tires and Lola body. I am intrigued myself. I guess that is no surprise since I have always like the 235 class and this gets me close to it.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:36 PM   #60
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I think it's a great idea !! It's not a different car so the manufacturers don't have to build and supply parts. Want to move up you can run your current car with some upgrades and you have a "tweener" with out dropping a load of cash.

Will all of the manufacturers offer the upgrades for this class

Think Serpent will make one for a 705 ??
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