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Old 09-23-2010, 08:03 AM   #2416
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is there a better picture somewhere??
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:48 PM   #2417
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is there a better picture somewhere??
any updates about this new car?
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:41 PM   #2418
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there are quite a few interesting aspects on that car if your imagination is good

rear shocks on the front of the tower?

considering i didn't see this car at the worlds this year, that is probably a faded cad drawing or something they are sneaking out. i doubt it would be anytime soon.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:13 PM   #2419
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Originally Posted by Brian Bosley View Post
there are quite a few interesting aspects on that car if your imagination is good

rear shocks on the front of the tower?

considering i didn't see this car at the worlds this year, that is probably a or something they are sneaking out. i doubt it would be anytime soon.
i don't think that is a faded cad drawing.
they have post this pic in tweeter http://twitpic.com/2qt4ai.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:31 PM   #2420
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Originally Posted by Brian Bosley View Post
there are quite a few interesting aspects on that car if your imagination is good

rear shocks on the front of the tower?

considering i didn't see this car at the worlds this year, that is probably a faded cad drawing or something they are sneaking out. i doubt it would be anytime soon.
Dunno though Mugen HAS to have a running version of the MTX-5 and they chose to field the MTX-4 instead of the new car.

I tell you what I was going to get a new kit because mine is a little long in the tooth but now i may just rehab it and wait.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:29 AM   #2421
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i don't think that is a faded cad drawing.
they have post this pic in tweeter http://twitpic.com/2qt4ai.
i dunno, look at the brake rod/linkages, shocks, main shaft, axles all in the same color? it looks a lot like xrays drawings from the past but maybe that was all they could do to make a new car :P

there just isn't enough to go by besides that rear shock tower, so if this is the new car i am kind of disappointed since they need a new car (like mugen is doing) not just another rehash of the same old thing. we have been running a rehash for the past 6? years. even the evo2 chassis is the prior chassis cut, we used to cut the front brace out and then they thinned the front area for flex.. not a big change. shimo's top deck at the worlds was just a piece of carbon and probably a custom cut top deck for him but its a minor change. velvet shocks were just a carry over from offroad

the geometry has barely changed, they went to 2mm wheels and back to 0mm with the offset hexes and rear hubs and i don't believe there has been a change to the front geometry yet. we still have the rubbing front shocks
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:13 PM   #2422
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Due to the tight track we have and to get maximum turn in i opt to go either for the Kyosho TCD diff or the Kawahara Neg Diff i.e. http://www.the-border.com/product.ph...cat=389&page=2 (if compatable with Evo2 kindly let me know if the Kawa is compatable guys and which would you prefare thanks.

Will the Kawahara in the rear with very light diff oil give me good slow speed steering in and out of the curve as with all the setup i tried my K car really pushed towards the outer part of the track when i hit the throttle.

Thanks
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:48 PM   #2423
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A tighter rear diff will make the rear end slide out easier than a loose diff/lighter oil and make it turn a little quicker. If it is good all round, but exiting a tight corner feels like the rear grips too much and makes the car go too straight, then go thicker in the rear. If it slides out under power too much or too easily, go lighter.
If the front feels as if it isn't pulling out of the corners but overall the grip is good, go thicker. If it pulls too much, go thinner.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:05 AM   #2424
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when you said tighter rear diff you mean you setup the car with a heavier diff oil in the rear than the front.

I have tried running lots of combinations

from 50,000 F / 20,000 R
to 10,000 F / 3,000 R

with 10,000 F / 3,000 R its was quite good but to unstable and was spinning to much REAR was to loose.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:14 PM   #2425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed6 View Post
when you said tighter rear diff you mean you setup the car with a heavier diff oil in the rear than the front.

I have tried running lots of combinations

from 50,000 F / 20,000 R
to 10,000 F / 3,000 R

with 10,000 F / 3,000 R its was quite good but to unstable and was spinning to much REAR was to loose.
Many experienced people that I know use 100 000 front and very light rear diff oil. We use 300 000 front and 5000 rear on the tracks that we race at. I've been told by many experienced people that the front is too heavy; and I tried to change to lighter front, but this is how my boy wants it with a lot of drive out of corners. It also helps to keep the car stable during braking. Most inexperienced drivers would probably like a light rear diff with heavy front for that reason ( stable drive out of corners), and it could be worth trying.

Kindest regards,
Lars.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:25 PM   #2426
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Originally Posted by Chickentrader View Post
Many experienced people that I know use 100 000 front and very light rear diff oil. We use 300 000 front and 5000 rear on the tracks that we race at. I've been told by many experienced people that the front is too heavy; and I tried to change to lighter front, but this is how my boy wants it with a lot of drive out of corners. It also helps to keep the car stable during braking. Most inexperienced drivers would probably like a light rear diff with heavy front for that reason ( stable drive out of corners), and it could be worth trying.

Kindest regards,
Lars.
Thanks Lars will try it out will try 50,000 in front and 3,000 in the rear and see what happens.

What about the Kawahara diff no one seems to be excited even though logically it does make lots of sense.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:16 PM   #2427
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Thanks Lars will try it out will try 50,000 in front and 3,000 in the rear and see what happens.

What about the Kawahara diff no one seems to be excited even though logically it does make lots of sense.
I'm not sure anybody has really ever tried them in the states (limited slip right?) as for fitment, the evo2 is mostly similar to every other rrr. you may have to dremel the front ackerman some.

Real cars use them quite extensively and although the trend was to use a rear diff and front spool for a long time it seems like setups are leaning more toward two diffs although a lot of drivers use 200k+ in the front and only 30k in the rear.

Unless your track is just dusty and really slippery, 50k/3k is going to be odd at best, you probably want to be closer to 80k(50k is worth a shot if its built) and then 20k in the rear. Most of the time I run 30-50k in the rear and 80-120k in the front.

Since it sounds like you want turn-in, try raising your front roll center or different ackerman settings. Look at rear toe-in, you don't really want more than 2.5 or so unless you need high speed stability or want the car to push on exit. You may also have to go crazy on the tires, I was at a track where I ran 33 fronts and 40 rears to keep them wearing evenly and to get steering. Try changing the split as well, cut 1mm or 3mm and see which you like better.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:08 AM   #2428
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Damn, I was hoping my really long response would've gone through. Well, here it goes again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speed6
when you said tighter rear diff you mean you setup the car with a heavier diff oil in the rear than the front.

I have tried running lots of combinations

from 50,000 F / 20,000 R
to 10,000 F / 3,000 R

with 10,000 F / 3,000 R its was quite good but to unstable and was spinning to much REAR was to loose.
Yes, that's what I meant to say, tighter = thicker oil.

I've been told by Peter Jovanovic (3rd IFMAR? 2008?, top driver here in Australia), his dad and his bro that with the RRR's, you only want to go as low as 30K in the rear, and to start at 150K in the front. Im running that now and it runs very well, but it would be better for me to run 20K or so in the rear, and maybe go up to 200K or so in the front to even out the tire wear.
Where I run, there are faster right-hand turns so the left side wears out faster. My rear end does that, but because the front diff is fairly loose, the right front wheel actually wore out more than the left, making if fairly lop-sided
In my experience here is what I can give you.

Oversteer.
Front end:

- make the front anti-roll bar more vertical/upright, or run a thicker wire, whichever you have**
- increase toe-out
- run a wider track width (a little less steering, gives a little more understeer feel)**
- make the shocks more vertical/upright**
- use harder springs**
- use thicker shock oil**
- use a harder compound foam**
- if using a 2mm split, increase it to 2.5mm or 3mm and see how it feels after that.
OFF POWER
- make the front of the chassis dive less when entering (should be 1 screw on each side of the front diff block, screw them in so the chassis stops lowering off power)**
- raise the front ride height/lower rear ride height**
CRUISING/MID CORNER
- raise front roll center
- harden the front/soften the rear springs**
- raise front roll center/decrease rear roll center.
- softer rear wheels/harder front wheels**
ON POWER- decrease front droop/make the chassis lift less (makes the rear drop quicker on-throttle instead of using that energy to lift the front up)
- make the shocks more flat**
- use softer rear springs**
- use thinner shock oil.**

If entering the corner you have too much speed, and when exiting the rear end always kicks out, lower your clutch engagement point to enter better, decrease the clutch gap to soften the way it engages on exit.

Rear end:
- make the anti-roll bar flatter, use a thinner wire, OR just disconnect it **
- use a little more toe-in**
- if using 200mm track-width allround, decrease the rear to 199-198mm wide, somehow aids stability off power.
ON POWER
- increase toe-in**
- use thinner shock oil**
- make shocks more flat**
- use softer springs**
- use softer wheels**

All of this, is for oversteer. If I was to include understeer, you guessed it - it would be double what it is now.
Everything that has a ** at the end, do the opposite if you have understeer. Theres heaps more stuff I could say, but this is the short version

But remember, one change at a time, unless you need a drastic change!!
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:09 AM   #2429
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Also, I noticed that the RRRs seem to like running at a ride height close to 5-6mm high, instead of 4-5mm, which I used to run thinking it would give a little more grip.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:29 AM   #2430
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Hey DJ_Shakespear thanks for this answers in RED

Damn, I was hoping my really long response would've gone through. Well, here it goes again.


Yes, that's what I meant to say, tighter = thicker oil.

I've been told by Peter Jovanovic (3rd IFMAR? 2008?, top driver here in Australia), his dad and his bro that with the RRR's, you only want to go as low as 30K in the rear, and to start at 150K in the front. Im running that now and it runs very well, but it would be better for me to run 20K or so in the rear, and maybe go up to 200K or so in the front to even out the tire wear.
Where I run, there are faster right-hand turns so the left side wears out faster. My rear end does that, but because the front diff is fairly loose, the right front wheel actually wore out more than the left, making if fairly lop-sided
In my experience here is what I can give you.

Oversteer. Are you sure this is for oversteer as all the things you said give me big time understeer?Front end:
- make the front anti-roll bar more vertical/upright, or run a thicker wire, whichever you have**
- increase toe-out
- run a wider track width (a little less steering, gives a little more understeer feel)**
- make the shocks more vertical/upright** tried it understeer

- use harder springs** tried it understeer
- use thicker shock oil** tried it understeer

- use a harder compound foam** in front?- if using a 2mm split, increase it to 2.5mm or 3mm and see how it feels after that.
OFF POWER
- make the front of the chassis dive less when entering (should be 1 screw on each side of the front diff block, screw them in so the chassis stops lowering off power)**
- raise the front ride height/lower rear ride height**
CRUISING/MID CORNER
- raise front roll center
- harden the front/soften the rear springs**
- raise front roll center/decrease rear roll center.
- softer rear wheels/harder front wheels**
ON POWER- decrease front droop/make the chassis lift less (makes the rear drop quicker on-throttle instead of using that energy to lift the front up)
- make the shocks more flat**
- use softer rear springs**
- use thinner shock oil.**

If entering the corner you have too much speed, and when exiting the rear end always kicks out, lower your clutch engagement point to enter better, decrease the clutch gap to soften the way it engages on exit.
Done this but still drifts out a bit
Rear end:
- make the anti-roll bar flatter, use a thinner wire, OR just disconnect it **
- use a little more toe-in**
- if using 200mm track-width allround, decrease the rear to 199-198mm wide, somehow aids stability off power.
ON POWER
- increase toe-in**
- use thinner shock oil**
- make shocks more flat**
- use softer springs**
- use softer wheels**

All of this, is for oversteer. If I was to include understeer, you guessed it - it would be double what it is now.
Everything that has a ** at the end, do the opposite if you have understeer. Theres heaps more stuff I could say, but this is the short version

But remember, one change at a time, unless you need a drastic change!!
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