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Old 02-18-2008, 12:41 PM   #1
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Default OS 12TR vs. Big $$$ Engine

OK so here is the deal, I finally ran my car against my buds Xray Nt1. Hes running a new .12 Mugen ninja and I'm running a tired OS .12TR. We haven't gotten down to some real side by side action yet but I was really impressed with the way my OS kept up with his ninja. The ninja has given us a hard time from the beginning tuning wise but we finally got it running and I wont deny that its fast, but this OS has left not only me but my best friend speechless. Whats going on here? Shouldn't the ninja have totally blown my OS out of the water? I mean thats what I was expecting. Lets get some of the obvious factors out of the way. We are not professional drivers but we are not rookies. We can drive our cars and get around the track fairly well. Were not pulling the best times but we can scoot around the track with the big boys so driving skills are equal here. Hes actually gotten more track time than me and drives very well. Ive broken in many engines in the past, and feel confident with getting an engine tuned properly. The ninja is running good but there has to be more power in it that we haven't tapped into yet.

I have never owned an OS engine and don't know much about the .12TR. I purchased it on ebay and the engine looks old and tired but runs impressive. Starts easy, holds a great idle and has decent torque. I have owned a few Novas and they are actually my favorite engines so I know what good is, but after seeing this OS I cant help but give credit where credit is due.

If anyone has had any experience with the OS 12TR chime in and give me your opinion on this engine. Id also like to hear what you guys think about OS engines in general. More specifically can OS engines run with the big $$$ engines?
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:00 PM   #2
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The os tr is an awesome engine for the price however its now discontinued with the beefed up os tz line.

i used to run the os tr r-spec which had the larger bore crank and black anodised crankcase and bigger carb.

that engine was awesome!

it all comes down to gearing, car setup and clutch setup .

Yes os engines can hang with the big boys. they are torque engines so gear them for more top end
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:00 PM   #3
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I came in 2nd place in the B main with my OS .12TR in a mostly stock HPI R40. If the car did handle better I would expect to place better. I got dusted on the straights, but on the infield I did perfect. No way it keeps up with a Ninja on the straightaway or so, but maybe on the infield with good driving skill it will match. However, it's still a tick slower in terms of HP and RPM compared to the Mugen MT12. Now that is a real low end motor of the past. During it's time one of the best and most powerful .12 to get. Today it's still a great beater motor if you can find one. BTW this was the layout for my track. It's roughly 205' x 108'wide



Depending on the track and layout if it's more technical you can get away with a weaker motor. Though on a larger track you might want to consider. Don't forget a weaker motor if you find yourself peaking it out run time will decrease being you are running almost WOT. Therefore it won't last as long on a tank of fuel like a faster engine.
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgsr View Post
The os tr is an awesome engine for the price however its now discontinued with the beefed up os tz line.

i used to run the os tr r-spec which had the larger bore crank and black anodised crankcase and bigger carb.

that engine was awesome!

it all comes down to gearing, car setup and clutch setup .

Yes os engines can hang with the big boys. they are torque engines so gear them for more top end
Sweet thanks for the insight mrgsr! I was totally surprised with the way that TR performed. I guess what impressed me the most is the way it has held a tune for so long. I had no idea what the engine had been through before I purchased it but it looks like its had better days. So judging by the looks of it I was really disappointed but once it cranked up it was a totally different story! A true testament to how well OS builds their carbs. I think Ill step up to the TZ series just to see what they are like. If its anything like the TR I will be pretty happy.
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarKonnenD View Post
I came in 2nd place in the B main with my OS .12TR in a mostly stock HPI R40. If the car did handle better I would expect to place better. I got dusted on the straights, but on the infield I did perfect. No way it keeps up with a Ninja on the straightaway or so, but maybe on the infield with good driving skill it will match. However, it's still a tick slower in terms of HP and RPM compared to the Mugen MT12. Now that is a real low end motor of the past. During it's time one of the best and most powerful .12 to get. Today it's still a great beater motor if you can find one. BTW this was the layout for my track. It's roughly 205' x 108'wide

Depending on the track and layout if it's more technical you can get away with a weaker motor. Though on a larger track you might want to consider. Don't forget a weaker motor if you find yourself peaking it out run time will decrease being you are running almost WOT. Therefore it won't last as long on a tank of fuel like a faster engine.
Thanks HarKonnenD! Yeah I figured it wouldn't keep up with the ninja. We did a few quick passes in a straight line and when the Mugen picks up RPM it just takes off like a bullet. The TR has plenty of low end torque but dies out quick. The track I go to has a similar layout to the one you run at. What engine would you recommend for a track similar to that? Im considering the picco JL red dot. Any comments on this particular engine?
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Old 02-19-2008, 08:44 PM   #6
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If you go for the JLR get the new EVO3. Available for the same price as the older model, this one is more powerful and will run with a lot of other high end engines at the track. A great buy especially if your track is about the same size as mine where speed is needed.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by HarKonnenD View Post
If you go for the JLR get the new EVO3. Available for the same price as the older model, this one is more powerful and will run with a lot of other high end engines at the track. A great buy especially if your track is about the same size as mine where speed is needed.
Thanks HarKonnenD! Hope you dont mind me asking but how hard is it to tune and how well does it hold a tune?

I ask because my good bud is running a Mugen Ninja.12 on his Xray Nt1 and were totally frustrated with it! Dont get me wrong its a great little engine but the one we got cant hold a tune for squat! Ive never seen such a temperamental little engine in all my years of being in the hobby. Ive heard of guys swearing by these mills but Im still on the fence. It might just be the one he got but believe me when I say we've tried it all. Everything from re-sealing the carb to leak tests. We can get it to run hard but we constantly have to be chasing setting every time we take his car out. Ive never had this hard of a time with my Nova's or my O.S. TG (oldie but goodie) Once I broke them in properly and did the initial set up, it was pretty much just start 'er up and go for me. Mess with the high speed a little at the track for some fine tuning and I could run the whole day without having to worry about my settings. Maybe Im just spoiled but if the JLR can hold a tune as well as any of the above engines Im sold!
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:17 AM   #8
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I had a OS TR that I sold for a faster engine. Yeah the other engine (a Sirio) was faster. But it also was a pain in the azz to tune, had air leaks at the carb, and snapped a main shaft for no apparent reason.

Now, I have a OS TR R-Spec that I still run. I got mine before they discontinued it to start up the TZ line. Mine still has great compression and is as fast as I need it to be. I've managed to keep up with 1/8 scalers on the straight and easily keep up with the other .12 engines. Yeah, the specs say that its down on power to the $400 engines. But on track, I don't see much difference.

And its nice to know that my engine will make it to the end of the race, every race. No erratic behavior, no stalling, just consistent running and plenty of power.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:21 PM   #9
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Thanks for your input Darkseid! Yeah that 12TG is a champ. Have you had any experience with the 12TZ? Im wondering if they are just as reliable as the older TG?
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:40 AM   #10
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The Ninja and Sirio EVO3 are both awesome motors and fairly easy to tune IMO. The Sirio packs a lot of bottom and top end power, though it's not as popular being they are no longer with Kyosho and parts became hard to find. Ninja was great too until drivers had an issue of the engine exhaust port getting snapped off when using the Fast Link pipe system and receiving a hit on the exhaust pipe. Now, they discontinued the engines. Still, there are plenty of other engines on the market to choose from. I personally own two OS .12 TZ's both Carlsen Tuned and they run very nicely. They easily will run with the Ninja on a 200ft back stretch with the Ninja slightly getting an advantage near the end of the stretch. It is crucial to find the right setup and I can't stress it enough to do so to get the best of your engines performance. After changing to the Swuager setup and modifying the flywheel weights there came about more snappier acceleration never achieved before. Also, the TZ performed far better than before. For now it will become a practice motor and the main motor will be the JLR Evo 3. You can try either or you won't be disappointed. When top end and more bottom is mandatory then the JLR is for you.

More power isn't necessarily bad and you don't have to choose an engine by that stature. Simple run the engine slightly richer or reduce the throttle travel a little bit. Should the current engine you have seem to top out often on your track then you need to upgrade to something faster. A slower motor can get as much run time or less than a much more powerful motor being it's running at nearly WOT. Driving style also affects run time. Sedans don't drive like 8th onroad vehicles so you need to be a lot more smoother.
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:15 AM   #11
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i think sirio has no bottom end power... if you are running on a tight track, i think you shouldnt buy that. but if track is large, its awesome
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:51 PM   #12
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HarKonnenD I agree with you 100% when you say that it is crucial to find the right setup for whatever engine your running. Too many times we get wrapped up with what's the fastest engine out there and forget about the rest of the car. You could put a monster engine on any car but if the car is not set up to handle that power properly and put it to the ground what good is it! I'm leaning strongly towards the TZ simply because of reliability and consistency. Price aint bad either. I haven't ruled the JL out yet and as per your comments it seems like I cant go wrong with any of these. I used to race 1/8 scale back in the day and switched over to 1/10 since my return to the hobby a year ago. Im finally able to get out to the track more often and I look forward to participating in a few upcoming races at my local track. Thanks for all your input, I greatly respect your comments and I appreciate all your help.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:27 PM   #13
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i think sirio has no bottom end power... if you are running on a tight track, i think you shouldnt buy that. but if track is large, its awesome
Come races the Sirio owners around my neck of the woods. Believe me they have more bottom end than you think. With the right tuning, proper clutch and pipe they scream.

ALMTX3- You will be pleased with the OS.12 TZ. Plenty of power and reliability.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:48 PM   #14
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Well I decide to finally go with the 12tz. I saw the abuse my 12tr took and I was convinced that OS makes them pretty strong. I had bought my 12TR engine used and abused and it had well over 10 gallons (minimum) through it and had never been cracked open, not once. I knew I would be getting the TZ so I took my TR out to track a few weeks back and ran it pretty lean. It didn't help that it was 95 out that day and after 3 hard laps she popped! And boy did she pop! I included some pics so you guys can see the damage, yeah it was pretty ugly but she went out fighting. That thing took some serious abuse and it ran strong till the end. Well its up on my shelf now as a testament to what can happen in these hot South Florida days. Ill be braking in the TZ soon and I just wanted to send out a quick thanks to all all you guys that chimed in on this thread!
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:31 AM   #15
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gday mate sorry for getting in so late but i didnt know this thread was around, anyway you where saying that the NINJA is a bitch to tune, one of the guys at the track i run at has the same problem they are awsome when you get the perfect but there is no margine for error in the tune, at the moment i run with a TG but when i step up to Pro im either going with a TZ spec II or a Picco Red-dot EVO 3 but the TZ so far is a awsome engine for running on any track just with the OS engines, they are built for Power/Torque so you need to gear it for top speed and youll be right.

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