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Old 06-04-2003, 05:44 PM   #1
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Exclamation ** NTC3: Rear Toe changing during run!! **

Whenever I hit/bump/touch a board during a run, my rear toe keeps changing, causing the car to drive like a loose pig. I've already replaced those damn stripping rpm ballcups like a dozen times, but eventually the rear toe gets jacked up again.

So what's the fix to this crappy ass problem??

I've heard about about rumors of a reverse locknut that AE was going to put out, but I'm not sure if it's confirmed. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 06-04-2003, 05:58 PM   #2
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if you replaced them 12 times,how many times have you hit the boards?..
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:27 PM   #3
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Default rear ball cups

g-spec.. i too have the same issue but fastharry blames it on the driving.....which is true.. i have myself to blame for not being a perfect driver.


i have not solve this rear and front ball cup yet.. because i'm going throw the car into the store room where it belongs and buy a stronger car with less silly issues.


my experience

first tank on track, rear right touch the wall, rear right toe-in 2 become netural--- car does not track straight anymore then wamp, a push by another car front toe-out .5 become front toe in 1 so now you come in for refuel,, then off you go gunning down the long straight pit lane noticing you need a lot of right steering to keep it going straight but it is too late and wamp you hit the board, left rear toe in become toe out...


so .... nothing broken, you have a fast engine, super smooth shaft drive, super fast servo and your car just cant drive!!! why? those cups are killing you .. and there goes A main finals down the drain.

NTC3 .. sure its fast, but it does not give me the security like a v1r or a mugen to finish the mains. we run 45mins A mains ...
never hear of people complaining ball cups issue on any gas car except NTC3.

i think AE must go back to the drawing board to design a stronger car... else their sales will drop like flies soon.
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: ** NTC3: Rear Toe changing during run!! **

Quote:
Originally posted by g-spec
Whenever I hit/bump/touch a board during a run, my rear toe keeps changing, causing the car to drive like a loose pig. I've already replaced those damn stripping rpm ballcups like a dozen times, but eventually the rear toe gets jacked up again.

So what's the fix to this crappy ass problem??

I've heard about about rumors of a reverse locknut that AE was going to put out, but I'm not sure if it's confirmed. Any advice would be appreciated.
hi g-spec,
actually this rear toe-in design was initially pioneered by BMT on their 95R 1/8 onroad cars. i used to drive 1 back then, and i had faced the same problems as you are facing now. so what you can do is try not to hit those boards too often or change to another stronger type of rod ends or get another brand of car. what i did to my 95R back then? keep in the storeroom like what fuse01 said!!!
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:44 PM   #5
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totally agreed, NTC3 great qualifier. in fact always qualified top 5 spot in A main. ( 5 out of 5) but it have been sitting at store room for 5 months because of SILLY problems. ( no I don't hit the boards, very rarely anyway, but always at the start of final, some body have have have to hit me)

Garry Owen AND Barry baker said it will come out as a Team kit since last Nov when they were in Hong Kong. 7 months later, I have not seem it but Barry have been using it for 1 year!!!!!!.
Give me an order and I make it in 2 weeks
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Old 06-05-2003, 05:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: rear ball cups

Quote:
Originally posted by fuse01
g-spec.. i too have the same issue but fastharry blames it on the driving.....which is true.. i have myself to blame for not being a perfect driver.


i have not solve this rear and front ball cup yet.. because i'm going throw the car into the store room where it belongs and buy a stronger car with less silly issues.


my experience

first tank on track, rear right touch the wall, rear right toe-in 2 become netural--- car does not track straight anymore then wamp, a push by another car front toe-out .5 become front toe in 1 so now you come in for refuel,, then off you go gunning down the long straight pit lane noticing you need a lot of right steering to keep it going straight but it is too late and wamp you hit the board, left rear toe in become toe out...


so .... nothing broken, you have a fast engine, super smooth shaft drive, super fast servo and your car just cant drive!!! why? those cups are killing you .. and there goes A main finals down the drain.

NTC3 .. sure its fast, but it does not give me the security like a v1r or a mugen to finish the mains. we run 45mins A mains ...
never hear of people complaining ball cups issue on any gas car except NTC3.

i think AE must go back to the drawing board to design a stronger car... else their sales will drop like flies soon.



listen,I know some of you are having problems.....but in all hoensty......


the front end too?...every car in the country uses front tie rods with ball cups......and i don't see complaints in any otber forum...


try using teh Lunsford tie rods front and back..they are thicker...also,use the RPM ball cups,not the RPM ones that they make for associated....teh RPM ones have a slightly smaller ID hole,providing more grip..
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:06 AM   #7
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Like Fastharry says, use Lunsford rods which are thicker in the thread area. You could also try using Rocket City captured ball ends. Those are very strong and don't strip out as much as the softer plastic used by RPM. Also replace them frequently since oil and dirt will tend to degrade the plastic.

You can find reverse threaded 4-40 nuts at a very well supplied hardware store if any still exist in your neighborhood. Those are commercially available. (NOTE: they may not work with Lunsford rods.)

Get used to seeing the rear toe being set like the NTC3 in more cars in the future. Schumacher has used this method for years and it does work.

V1rs are good as is the Reflex which is based on the Kyosho car but those cars have issues also (very few at my track ever finish a qualifier let alone a main). In my area the most A-main wins are the NTC3s with a rare win by a Serpent or Yokomo. Somehow all these A-main winners have finished in order to win.
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Old 06-05-2003, 08:20 AM   #8
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All you have to do is put a lock nut on the rod and tighten it against the ball cup after you adjust the toe.

I'll try and find the size and report back.
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Old 06-05-2003, 05:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I guess that no car can be considered to understeer by desing or to oversteer.
That's when setup comes into play.
There are too many factors starting on shocks and ending on the foams to play with to achieve that perfect balance between turning ability and stable and fast driving.

The TC3 is no more and no less capable of any car out there to do that.

The rear toe never failed on me. True that I never hit a wall with a rear wheel but I got T boned a considerable number of times and NEVER had a problem with rear toe losing the correct setting and by no means I've stripped ball cups with a bump.

Schumacher cars have that system for ages and during an entire season of electric racing (last year) the National Champion had a few hard hits but I dont recall him saying that rear toe was off because of that.

If you do that with toe on the TC3 then you may be able to do that on any car steering and camber links. Even if the shafts were made of titanium all the way with no ball cups you could always bend one.

I guess that can't be a weakness attributed to the car more than you can do it with other cars.

The car is smooth when setup is decent. It's fast and accelerates very fast.

If it's faster than other cars depends on to many factors:
Ratios
Motor
Motor tuning
Grip of wheels
etc etc

No way to compare. The only way is to have two cars and driving them both. Then you'll feel the diference.

What I can see is :
it was the fisrt World Champion (not for lack of competition)
it rips in every race around here
on my first race with one I went straight to the final with the national créme de la créme present at the race.
I never could with my MTX2...











this was posted in the nitro tc3 forum.........interesting reading,right?..
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:35 PM   #10
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I saw a guy at the track who had those collars with the set screw. He had them on both ends of the turnbuckle. I'm going to try that next.
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:40 PM   #11
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the nut size is 3.5mm ......you need two reg thread and two reverse thread....good luck finding the reverse thread...
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:41 PM   #12
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..
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:48 PM   #13
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problem is, it is nearly imposible to find the 3.5 rev. nuts.....
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:48 PM   #14
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Actually, you do not need the reverse threaded nuts. Just jamb the turnbuckle all the way in on the reverse thread side into the ball cup and put the regular nuts on the outside ball cup (the side that connects to the wheel hubs. When making the adjustments, make them to the outside ball cup and lock the nut against the cup and you should not have any problems. Make sure to turn the regular threads towards the wheel hubs. Hope this hint helps people out. I have used this method for several months and have not had to readjust the rear toe from an accident.
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Old 06-05-2003, 07:58 PM   #15
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Just get some collars. I forgot what inside diameter they are but here's a pic. Never had a problem again.
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