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Old 05-31-2003, 07:06 AM   #1
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Default How to mix fuel?

anyone know how to mix a fuel?

i want try to mix it my self but i need some suggestion

thanks
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Old 05-31-2003, 03:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: How to mix fuel?

Quote:
Originally posted by T-shirt
anyone know how to mix a fuel?

i want try to mix it my self but i need some suggestion
Ok, you have done a great leap, want to blend your own fuel, first to do is to identificate what kind of engine will use and nitro percentage.

There are many good fuel blenders (Byron, O'Donnell, Maxys, etc, etc, etc...) you may need to have a reason to try a custom blend.

Next step is to source good components Oil, Nitro and Methanol.

For the oil, you will be quite pleased with some Castor Oil like Klotz Benol and their counterpart Klotz Original Techniplate. If cannot source Benol, much probably will get some Castrol M, but Benol is better.

Next step is to search for some Nitromethane, forget whatever crappy ads you may see. If you're on the US, much probably all the nitromethane will see come from Angus Chemicals ( http://www.dow.com/angus ) but on different grades. Choose one seller of quality near of you, NM cannot be carried by courier services nor postage, same applies to Methanol.

Depending your personal likings you may add more or less oil to the mix, and here is when it starts your personal nightmare.... How much castor? How much synthetic oil? sorry all of this depends, but for making your life a little easier and since I blend my own fuel I can give you some kind of ballpark figures.

- Summer: >30C air temp: 11 or 12% of oil: 6% or Castor oil and 5 or 6% of synthetic oil.
- Winter: >15C air temp: 11 or 12% of oil: 3 - 4% of Castor oil and 7 - 8 % of Synthetic oil.

Those figures of oil can be lowered, all depends how much you like your engine, but I'll remember you that oil doesn't burn on your combustion chamber (only cools and lubricates moving parts) as much oil, the less Nitromethane and Methanol on your engine, so less power output. Under all out racing conditions I lowered the oil percentage up to the 8%, but engine life is severely decreased.

BTW: I will not accept any kind of responsability due to the use of those formulas, use at your risk, you asked for and you get an answer.
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[quote=MugenDrew;2684554]BATTERIES are for FLASH LIGHTS, gasoline is for cleanin parts, alcohol is for me to drink and well NITRO...everybody know thats for racing.[/quote] :D:D:D
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Old 05-31-2003, 10:53 PM   #3
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Interesting post Corse-R. This is something that I have been playing around with for the last 5-6 months. Also good recomendation about the Klotz oils. Most people don't realise that about 80% of all comercialy available fuels here in the US are made using Klotz oil. So same quality methanol, same quilty nitro, same quality oil only difference is oil percentage, label and of course price!
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Old 06-01-2003, 07:16 AM   #4
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Have any of you guys tried in other syn. oils other than klotz? I'm using something new here its called Dumonde
( I think I have it spelled right) Most all 2 stroke motorcycle guys here have switched to it. Its suppose to lubricate better and over 10% more HP.
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Old 06-01-2003, 08:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by bbntc3
Have any of you guys tried in other syn. oils other than klotz? I'm using something new here its called Dumonde
( I think I have it spelled right) Most all 2 stroke motorcycle guys here have switched to it. Its suppose to lubricate better and over 10% more HP.
Don't know this kind of oil, but sounds me as a gimmicks. Oil is ever oil and doesn't burn, nor can add more flame to the combustion, only lubricates and removes heat. But in case of needing to get another Synthetic oil would choose some that is used on Karts, by construction, rpms and others are quite similar to our engines. Probably some like Shell Advance, main problem of almost all karting and motorcycle oils is their poor miscibility with methanol and another alcohols.
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[quote=MugenDrew;2684554]BATTERIES are for FLASH LIGHTS, gasoline is for cleanin parts, alcohol is for me to drink and well NITRO...everybody know thats for racing.[/quote] :D:D:D
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Old 06-01-2003, 09:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by bbntc3
Have any of you guys tried in other syn. oils other than klotz? I'm using something new here its called Dumonde
( I think I have it spelled right) Most all 2 stroke motorcycle guys here have switched to it. Its suppose to lubricate better and over 10% more HP.
I also have never heard of Dumond but there are other oils available you just need to do some research. Also I will agree with Corse-R regardign all castor oils being the same. Just buy Klotz Benol or whatetver you can find localy. What I have found is that not all synthetics are created equaly. There are gains to be had by experimenting with this. As Corse-R mentioned the more oil the less Nitro/methanol to burn so less power. The whole key is finding the right type of synthetic oil, the ratio (synthetic/castor) and the overall percentage. In an ideal world we would run an all synthetic based oil as it has less parasitic drag on the piston by partialy burning, produces less carbon build up and (if you pick the right type) can actualy provide equal or better film strenght than castor. However this is where all of the research is at and most will not tell you what they are using. Castor is used for over-rev protection and will save you in a lean condition.

Basicaly what I would recomend is that if you do not have a large amount of engines that you can afford to loose just stick with the Klotz oil. Run a combination of Techniplate (synthetic) and Benol (castor) . If you are not realy pushing the performance of the engine stay between 8-12% oil total. To be honest with you if you are not looking for any particular improvement the easiest thing is just to buy your fuel from the store and not worry about this.
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Old 06-01-2003, 10:07 AM   #7
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Default Are all castor oils equal?.... NOT!

I've read something that shocked me, and is the fact that everybody seems to think that all castor oils are equal.... Wrong!

One of my track buddies works as a technician on a petrochemical (Repsol) and gave some bottles of different oils (Castol M and Benol mainly and Shell Advance M), asked for a complete analisys of the oils, wanted to know as much as possible of those oils.

Some days after, he gave me some data, were sheets full of data, but he told me to pay attention to some results: Density, Film strenght, dry residues result of burning and thermal stability of the oils.

Comparing brand by brand saw that Castrol M is slightly less fluid than Benol and Shell Advance (isn't a true SAE 50 as they advertises, slightly higher) compared with Klotz and Shell advance will be more fluid and will flow better. Tests were done at 20C and 100C too.

Film strenght was quite similar, but getting a winner will be Klotz.

On dry residues, winner was Shell, but quite followed of Klotz, Castrol left more gum.

He told me that if he needed to choose between the three oils that I provided, he would choose Klotz, Shell and Castrol in this order.

Klotz here is easily available, Shell is a nightmare to find it and very expensive and Castrol is starting to be scarce to find, seems that Castrol is planning to stop production of Castrol M.

All castor oils came from the same plant, but not all are created equally and their properties are similar, but now equal.
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---
[quote=MugenDrew;2684554]BATTERIES are for FLASH LIGHTS, gasoline is for cleanin parts, alcohol is for me to drink and well NITRO...everybody know thats for racing.[/quote] :D:D:D
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Old 06-01-2003, 10:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Are all castor oils equal?.... NOT!

Quote:
Originally posted by Corse-R
I've read something that shocked me, and is the fact that everybody seems to think that all castor oils are equal.... Wrong!

One of my track buddies works as a technician on a petrochemical (Repsol) and gave some bottles of different oils (Castol M and Benol mainly and Shell Advance M), asked for a complete analisys of the oils, wanted to know as much as possible of those oils.

Some days after, he gave me some data, were sheets full of data, but he told me to pay attention to some results: Density, Film strenght, dry residues result of burning and thermal stability of the oils.

Comparing brand by brand saw that Castrol M is slightly less fluid than Benol and Shell Advance (isn't a true SAE 50 as they advertises, slightly higher) compared with Klotz and Shell advance will be more fluid and will flow better. Tests were done at 20C and 100C too.

Film strenght was quite similar, but getting a winner will be Klotz.

On dry residues, winner was Shell, but quite followed of Klotz, Castrol left more gum.

He told me that if he needed to choose between the three oils that I provided, he would choose Klotz, Shell and Castrol in this order.

Klotz here is easily available, Shell is a nightmare to find it and very expensive and Castrol is starting to be scarce to find, seems that Castrol is planning to stop production of Castrol M.

All castor oils came from the same plant, but not all are created equally and their properties are similar, but now equal.
Interesting and thank you for posting this information. To me it would seem that castor oil is all a pressing of the cator bean the oils would be similar w/ the exception of qulity differences between first pressing and second pressing tha tyou can dictate when buying. Regarding the dry residue (I'm asuming that you mean carbon residue) differences is it possible that this is a result of addatives in the oil that the specific oil company puts in i.e. a dispersant ? I aks this as we add an automotive valve cleaning addative to our fuel mixtures that breaks up carbon depostis.
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Old 06-02-2003, 08:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Re: How to mix fuel?

Quote:
Originally posted by Corse-R
Ok, you have done a great leap, want to blend your own fuel, first to do is to identificate what kind of engine will use and nitro percentage.

There are many good fuel blenders (Byron, O'Donnell, Maxys, etc, etc, etc...) you may need to have a reason to try a custom blend.

Next step is to source good components Oil, Nitro and Methanol.

For the oil, you will be quite pleased with some Castor Oil like Klotz Benol and their counterpart Klotz Original Techniplate. If cannot source Benol, much probably will get some Castrol M, but Benol is better.

Next step is to search for some Nitromethane, forget whatever crappy ads you may see. If you're on the US, much probably all the nitromethane will see come from Angus Chemicals ( http://www.dow.com/angus ) but on different grades. Choose one seller of quality near of you, NM cannot be carried by courier services nor postage, same applies to Methanol.

Depending your personal likings you may add more or less oil to the mix, and here is when it starts your personal nightmare.... How much castor? How much synthetic oil? sorry all of this depends, but for making your life a little easier and since I blend my own fuel I can give you some kind of ballpark figures.

- Summer: >30C air temp: 11 or 12% of oil: 6% or Castor oil and 5 or 6% of synthetic oil.
- Winter: >15C air temp: 11 or 12% of oil: 3 - 4% of Castor oil and 7 - 8 % of Synthetic oil.

Those figures of oil can be lowered, all depends how much you like your engine, but I'll remember you that oil doesn't burn on your combustion chamber (only cools and lubricates moving parts) as much oil, the less Nitromethane and Methanol on your engine, so less power output. Under all out racing conditions I lowered the oil percentage up to the 8%, but engine life is severely decreased.

BTW: I will not accept any kind of responsability due to the use of those formulas, use at your risk, you asked for and you get an answer.
thanks Corse-R

i will try to start to mix my own fuel now..
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Old 06-02-2003, 05:05 PM   #10
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For what its worth many of the manufactures of fuels are using UCON LB 625 as their synthetic oil. It is made by Union Carbide now merged with Dow Chemical. It was purpose designed as a two stroke lubricant.

I know for a fact that Odonnel fuel has used it as had Morgan fuels under the names FHS gold and CPO77
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Old 06-03-2003, 12:52 AM   #11
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Default Re: Re: Are all castor oils equal?.... NOT!

Quote:
Originally posted by PMT
Interesting and thank you for posting this information. To me it would seem that castor oil is all a pressing of the cator bean the oils would be similar w/ the exception of qulity differences between first pressing and second pressing tha tyou can dictate when buying. Regarding the dry residue (I'm asuming that you mean carbon residue) differences is it possible that this is a result of addatives in the oil that the specific oil company puts in i.e. a dispersant ? I aks this as we add an automotive valve cleaning addative to our fuel mixtures that breaks up carbon depostis.
PMT

what brand of the addative you use, is it like fuel injection cleaner??
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