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Old 05-29-2003, 05:22 PM   #1
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Default Have a chuckle about power claims

In a recent RC nitro magazine the Team Orion Drone ROAR legal is tested.



Here is Orions claims:

80051 Team Orion .12 ROAR - Rear exhaust, SG shaft, Slide Carburator
RPM: 37,000 - HP: 1.45 Bore: 13.8 - Stroke: 14.0

1.45 horsepower!! Hold on!!

Here is the ACTUAL dyno results courtesy of RC Nitro.



Here is their blurb:

We tested the engine using standard-blend fuel for small blocks; it consisted of 20-percent nitro and 12-percent lubricant. The Wasp .12 engine develops good bottom-end torque. The torque peaks at 37.5 oz.-in. at 21,800rpm. This gives the Wasp a distinct advantage on the bottom end and produces more tire-twisting torque this early in the rpm than even the most powerful engines we've tested. It doesn't peak as high as the engines that have produced high horsepower numbers, but it has a distinct advantage in the bottom-end department. Another notable characteristic is the flatness of the power curve. If you read our dyno tests on a regular basis, you'll know that we often speak of "flat" power curves. This is a desirable trait; it indicates that the engine delivers consistent power over a wide rpm range. This engine produces one of the flattest power curves we've seen. The Wasp's horsepower peaks at .96 bhp and runs at just a little over 31,000rpm. But the power is above .50 bhp across a range of more than 22,000rpm! That translates into smooth, "good" power.

Seems that it is missing half a horse somewhere
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Old 05-29-2003, 05:52 PM   #2
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sounds like the same review they gave the OS TR...and we all know where that leads on a 200 ft straight....2nd place!!!
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Old 05-29-2003, 09:32 PM   #3
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nevermind I didnt see the new article.
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Old 05-30-2003, 11:53 PM   #4
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Default Have a chuckle about power claims

Guys;

I am sure that 1.45hp is NOT on 20%-12% Fuel.
They (meaning T.O.) also might have tested dozens of engines and took the numbers from the very best run, or they ALSO might have not done ANY testing and the figures are just out of someones "A". Marketing.
I can say from experience that the Picco .12 Engines have been very good to me, with Great Power (after a Carb change) and long life (on 30%-12%).
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Old 05-31-2003, 12:07 AM   #5
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If you aren't boasting HP numbers that are out of reach of your engine, then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. Quite plainly, everyone does it. Also, those numbers only work on the guys who haven't seen serious competition or have very little experience or knowledge of nitro R/C. It is a little dirty -in my book- especially since it is only the guys that don't know what is going on that actually take the HP claim seriously, but to stay with the competition (in terms of sales), a company today needs to make outrageous and often ridiculous HP claims in order to get enough business.

When I first realized the reality of the HP claims, I was insulted, but I have now seen this part of the advertising as comical as AMG and Fastharry find it.


My 4 cents- a guy like me always has to pay extra, damn tax.
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Old 05-31-2003, 09:59 AM   #6
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Default Engine vs Engine Power output

Guys;

I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask this question, so here goes:

Having been racing Electric Stock now, There is a BIG difference in performance in identical type Motors from the same manufacturer. Even after tuning for best performance, there are wide sample variations in performance.

So my question is, Has anyone seen this with NITRO Engines? Large (noticeable) differences in Power output between 2 different engines of the EXACT same type/brand. In theory it should be there, but maybe manufacturing tolerances are so good these days that it is not really noticeable on a quality engine.

I have personally has seen this on HPI 15FE's, but that is a Sport Engine with less than stellar performance, so it is to be expected.

Thanks,
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Old 05-31-2003, 10:13 AM   #7
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so could that be why my 15fe is a pain in the a$$ to get started and keep runnig where as other people really like them??

or it could just be me but idk
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Old 05-31-2003, 01:41 PM   #8
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i dont think any of the engines they have tested have yet to get the same as the claimed HP
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Old 05-31-2003, 01:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine vs Engine Power output

Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
Guys;

I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask this question, so here goes:

Having been racing Electric Stock now, There is a BIG difference in performance in identical type Motors from the same manufacturer. Even after tuning for best performance, there are wide sample variations in performance.

So my question is, Has anyone seen this with NITRO Engines? Large (noticeable) differences in Power output between 2 different engines of the EXACT same type/brand. In theory it should be there, but maybe manufacturing tolerances are so good these days that it is not really noticeable on a quality engine.

I have personally has seen this on HPI 15FE's, but that is a Sport Engine with less than stellar performance, so it is to be expected.

Thanks,

Popsrace, it's the same. I have visited most of the engine manufacturers in Italy and when looking at their teams "race engines" one thing realy suprised me. This is how stock they look. There usualy is verry little modification done to them with the exception of some minor crank work and clean up on the case / sleeve. I asked about this and what I found is that when they build team engiens what these guys do is pull 100+ engines and measure every single component in the engine. What they do is pick only the pieces that have the tightest tollerences i.e. perfectly round sleeves, super straight connecting rods, cases where the crank bearings are perfectly alligned. So out of the 100+ engines they start with they end up with the components to make about 15 perfect engines. These 15 engines are then assembled and tested on the dyno and on the track by the driver. Out of these he will usuay end up with between 5-10 engines that are realy good. These are cleaned, oiled and bagged for use by the driver over the season.

Heres some food for thought. When you buy something like an RB Team engine which is broken in and tested on the dyno at a premium of $100+ over the non team engine. Do you realy think that you are getting the best ones?
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Old 05-31-2003, 04:17 PM   #10
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heres the real question..do you think you could tell the difference?
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Old 05-31-2003, 05:00 PM   #11
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pops - I've seen this. I wouldn't call it "large" differences but I've had almost every flavor of OS and Nova based engine and some engines just like different things. I've even had engines run better AND worse after piston and sleeve changes. I think it's more evident in electric because there are more factors that affect power. Also, in Stock racing racers are now able to access all the potential of the motor. In nitro, very few racers can get to that last 5-10% of power where an engine is "optimally" tuned. In nitro, there is air/fuel ratio, nitro content and port and timing configuration (obviously over simplified but you get the picture). Just my observations
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Old 05-31-2003, 06:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by fastharry
sounds like the same review they gave the OS TR...and we all know where that leads on a 200 ft straight....2nd place!!!
What did they rate the 12 TR at?
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Old 06-01-2003, 01:00 AM   #13
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Default Re: Engine vs Engine Power output

Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
Guys;

I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask this question, so here goes....
Sorry...

With major tuning (head shims, plug, total exhaust length, high nitro, etc) you could definitely get some of the best ones to get close, but I still doubt that it will meet that claimed output. That is just my opinion, but that particular engine's performance is in no way a representation of the average performance of all TO engines of the same model. This only represents a single specimen, but the differences between each specimen should not differ by 50%. Even with more radical methods of tuning it is probably not going to happen. If it does, I would be equally worried that if I get one over the counter at my LHS, I might run into an engine with close to 50% less horsepower then this engine had.


I am just a normal schmuck racer with opinions, but this type of advertising is a worry to me. There are so many things that could be true, or false, and yet we aren't given any info in order to make our own decision on what is what (and yet it is all we are given by the manufacturer). Even equipped with info such as RC Nitro's dyno results, trying one is the only way of deciding of how good a particular product is- especially with a product such as an engine which is a complete mystery to 1/2 of the racers out there ( or at least a fogy day in London).


My point is that this stuff doesn't matter much in my decision to buy a motor any more, while personal testaments and something I can actually see hold more presidence in my purchasing decisions.

Last edited by Im2lazy; 06-01-2003 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 06-01-2003, 02:18 AM   #14
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Default tr hp

the tr was rated at .96 also and had a fat torque curve but the factory rate it at 1.1 hp which is a lot more realistic & closer than orians claims
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Old 06-01-2003, 02:35 AM   #15
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id rather go with OS anyway... easyier to find etc....
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