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Old 10-11-2007, 11:08 AM   #106
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Looks like a bigger version of what a 1/10 touring Sedan started out as 10 years ago. And what do we have for 1/10 touring now.........
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Old 10-11-2007, 12:01 PM   #107
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What promotes negativity within R/C racing?

1. Poorly run events / club racing
2. Unfriendly atmosphere (egos, yelling and complaining)
3. Arguing amongst the R/C community about how poorly “sanctioned” events are run.

What is causing low turnout at club and “larger” events?
1. Poor advertising…how does someone interested in “racing” R/C cars learn about the available clubs and events. Just because an event is in a highly visible location does not mean you are reaching out to the individuals who want to race. They may not have been there that day and don’t know the club or event exists. Radio, magazine and flyers go a long way in promoting clubs and events.

2. Too many options…I do not have statistics but talking to those that have been in the OnRoad sport for more than fifteen years, the available “large” events has grown. There are Canadian Nationals, Midwest Series, Byrons Races, MidAmerica Races, FORGASS, Great Lakes Challenge, Winter Nationals, ROAR National and Regional events, RC PRO events on top of regular club races, just to name a few. Many racers pick and choose what events they are willing to travel to and support. In most cases, there is a maximum entry allowed, so even if you had three hundred drivers that wanted to participate in one event, you couldn’t do it.

3. Magazine coverage…if you look at any available “Land” R/C magazine, 90% of the articles, testing and product advertisement is directed toward Off Road or Electric. Look at the covers; how many times do you see a buggy, monster truck, truggy or some other “dirt stomper” on the cover…how many OnRoad cars, particularly 1/8th scale show up on the cover?

4. Club Funding….most clubs are depend on free property (parking lots). If the property is sold, new owners can just get rid of your racing opportunity. R/C Racers are usually cheap by nature….we spend big $ on vehicles and equipment but complain when a club asks for a $15-$20 race fee to cover traction compound, possible rent, electric if available, body wash areas, tire truing stations general upkeep of boards and property. If the club cannot break even in maintaining or improving the facility racers will go else where. There are usually less than five people that are actually “driving” club all the other racers like to complain.


A low cost entry level On Road race class is great...however, if the above items are not adressed, how will people know the option is even available.

Our club provided FREE race fees for the entire season (12 club races) to touring car, promoted a run what you brung class to try and bring in 1/10 scale drivers. We averaged at best six drivers per race. Most of them showed up two or three times throughout the season and we have not seen them again. Why???? I would guess many of the reasons listed above.

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Old 10-11-2007, 03:33 PM   #108
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I love the free class idea. Should help encourage the new guys to get a car and start running it. Our club might use this idea. Thanks.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:10 PM   #109
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? where will this go just by posting a reminder of what promotes negativity.
I certainly & other racers just avoid the negativity & go out & race & have fun with some good friends & meet new ones. excellent ideas & jspeed has been pushing the needle with the gt class but let's see it in action & post what can we do to positively promote the hobby. JMO
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:18 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by cheesewhip View Post
what's this rally car rc racing business???

1/8th scale inferno??
does it come with a am27mhz radio?
who's gonna wanna run that?

400 for the car..
$$ for fuel..
$$ for tires and wheels..
$$ for transponder...
$$ for rechargeable glow plug ignitor
$$ for rechargeable receiver pack
$$ for battery charger to charge batteries
$$ for entrance fee for the race...
$$ for certain down the line upgrade on the radio
$$ for engine replacement...
$$ for starter box b/c you are getting tired of pull start...
$$ for replacement body....
$$ for broken parts replacement
$$ for shock oils and diff oils...
$$ for glow plugs... (did you know these things now cost $5?! now? 8 to 10 for turbo plugs??!!)
$$ for tools b/c L wrenches the kit came with suck.
$$ for flywheel removal tool
$$ for threadlock....
$$ for setup tools like camber and toe gauges.. you are going to want a setup board later...
$$ for (fill in the blank)
and the list goes on..

Sorry. Couldn't help it. It seemed like you were simplifying it too much.. $400 and go race??
Comments like this is the reason we have this thread right now.
Point is that a class like the GT will get people into racing without the high cost. $400 gets you a high end touring roller. That's it......nothing else! As I stated before, everyone that gets into the hobby are not trying to make the A main at the Nats. They just want to have some fun on the weekend.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:10 PM   #111
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The GT class is entertaining to a point, there are a couple locally and it seems to be growing but I don't know any of my friends looking to buy one as we are already committed to something else.

Spec racing has never been the savior of RC, it's been tried countless times in 10th scale offroad by losi, 10th pancar by trinity, and 8th onroad by various local clubs.

I've also seen many times when the local fast guys run one class, the slower guys switch to something else for a while until the class grows large enough that the fast guys get involved and then the cycle starts over again.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:24 PM   #112
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You're right, spec racing has been tried before but just because it didn't work then with one particular type of car, doesn't mean it can't work. Especially since we're considering a totally new chassis, engine, size, ect. Instead of saying what didn't work in the past, how about suggesting what you think might work to grow r/c in the future?
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:58 PM   #113
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The reasons the GT cars can promote our sport are very simple:

They’ve got Great Looking Bodies, Big, Loud and Fast enough to impress.
They're Stronger than all other On-Road type chassis out there.
They have a great RTR “Entry” price and will run well on just about any “track” surface; from dirt-gravel-parking lots-club tracks-World class facilities.

They can be raced in front of people and we won’t have to see that “you’ve got to be kidding me" or "no way, that much?" Or "you’re nuts, that's too much for me” looks on their faces when you tell them how much to get started.

Name 1 other type of RC car chassis ever made in the history of RC racing that can fill the same criteria with a $400 dollar price tag in RTR form?

The only way to argue against GT racing’s ability to “break out” our sport into the mainstream population is to “side” with the “negativity” of a company that doesn’t have this type of chassis in their “line-up” or to be someone in a “click” that doesn’t want RC to grow.

This is a no brainer; let’s just hope that demand of product & orders for GT cars can be fulfilled by the RC biz.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:13 PM   #114
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I think that this GT class of cars is what the sport needs to get the entry level racer and newbe in the game, and later if they are interested step into the other classes.Just my two cents.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:27 PM   #115
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I think that this GT class of cars is what the sport needs to get the entry level racer and newbe in the game, and later if they are interested step into the other classes.Just my two cents.
That is the plan we should try to go with!
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Old 10-12-2007, 02:37 AM   #116
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The GT class brings a lot of familiarity when it comes to the look of the car.
The GT comes in BMW M3, Subaru Impreza, Ferrari, etc... When cars look realistic, the more audience it captures. For on-road nitro 1/10 and 1/8, we all know that the bodies have different driving characteristics, and we really don't pay much attention to how realistic they look. I've heard many people ask "Why do all the bodies look the same?" Thats probably cuz they are all Stratuses and Mazdas. And when they ask what kind of car is that, they really want to know what kind of body is that. They can't relate when I reply "Crowd pleazer" or "Nemesis". I guess they want to see more of the familiar cars like Accords, Mustangs, or some exotic sportscar. We only see a variety of bodies with the beginner class, and I must admit, it makes for more realistic racing.
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Old 10-12-2007, 06:37 AM   #117
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You're right, spec racing has been tried before but just because it didn't work then with one particular type of car, doesn't mean it can't work. Especially since we're considering a totally new chassis, engine, size, ect. Instead of saying what didn't work in the past, how about suggesting what you think might work to grow r/c in the future?
Unfortunately one thing that will grow the industry is for the industry giants to spend some money on advertising.. I'm sure Horizon, HRP and Great Planes have plenty of additional funds for billboards but their target audience is the basher. You would think Losi, Team Associated or HPI would be large enough but they've also all gone to basher cars. The Losi spec electric offroad car was something around $200 rtr if I remember right, it was more than affordable.

The tracks need to move out of the backwoods as well, I'll fill you guys in on Nov 12th after I see the spectator attendance at the 200mm nationals this year but without any form of advertising done by the track I doubt it will be higher than the racers plus a few of their friends here and there. Fortunately and Unfortunately my local track has supposedly over $300 grand tied up in their onroad / covered offroad tracks and pit space so they don't seem interested in doing much more until they recoup some of this with high entry fees and $30 dollar table rental.

The most successful tracks I've seen have been parking lot races near busy shopping centers, Castle Hobbies in San Jose used to get a minimum of 100 racers and there was often 20-30 guys in lawn chairs watching. I've tried numerous times to find parking lots in the Houston area where the stores have closed down or are not open on saturday or sunday but we just don't have enough to bring them anything interesting to get one of these prime locations even though it's completely empty for the entire time we would use it. Even with ROAR insurance, most of these guys want at least a grand for the rental of the day assuming they will even talk to you because it's not worth the liability to most of the people I talked to. If you can find a place, parking lot tracks can EASILY be setup with minimal effort by 3-4 people by obtaining old fire hose from fire stations (sometimes for free) and borrowing a lap timer if you can swing that some how.
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:30 AM   #118
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After the revamping of the track for 2008 season my immediate intentions are to try and possibly have a few of my friends in radio to possibly give us a plug. I have reserved this plug for the moment that we get things together as well as having the 1/8 GTP class introduced so that when people come out they can actually see something that they will not be intimidated by to get into.

I believe it is so much easier to tell a person a base line price that is closer to reality than one that is in the stratosphere. $400 is much better than saying 1500-2000 just to start.

There are also the important thing of realizing that the cliques so to say or small idiot groups that believe they know what is needed or have so many comments on what should be done, why is it they never take on any of the tasks at hand. They have time to fixate and get delusional over matters that either are under control, being controlled or no one has nay control over. What is necessary for the club to survive are the strong team work and friendship and bonding. I on more than one occasion have tried to mend fences so to say but have been unsuccessful at some and some are just not worth investing the aggravation over to get in the middle of the grown men cat fights that transpire behind what we are all supposed to be enjoying. If the haters and special needs groups could for one second put themselves in the passenger seat and put the sport first eventually we might just come ahead on a positive not.

As far as the GTP class it can and will be the saving grace for the sport, realistic in every-way especially where it counts the most on the BUDGET. most of our shops have carried them and sold many but I have yet to see the others because I think they feel intimidated by the other racers. I have tried to tell people for years that we as a club are there for all racers not just the fast-ones that wont tell a guy about the track because they are afraid to see a new racer( less experience) to race. Those same fast guys need to realize that they will not be in a race with them and also must realize that unless naturally gifted everyone has a starting point. Some better than other but never the less a point in which you over come intimidation and must learn to adjust. Even when it comes to the clubs we all want to be over night success stories but the fact of the matter is that when you see a successful club doing the job and the well oiled machine flowing no one ever seems to realize the time it took and the time invested to get to that point. Looking at a finished portrait of a club and comparing it only destroys the moral of those trying to make it happen for the club. Now taking and comparing points of reference of which another club has done to get themselves to where they are is a stage or foundation that is positive and can be used in a much more creative driving force. It is a great sport and could be better if all the jerks just went somewhere else but as in life they are in all aspects of what we do and unfortunately we have to deal with them.
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:44 AM   #119
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The tracks need to move out of the backwoods as well, ..........................
......This will not happen because of this.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhatesnitro View Post
................. I've tried numerous times to find parking lots in the Houston area where the stores have closed down or are not open on saturday or sunday but we just don't have enough to bring them anything interesting to get one of these prime locations even though it's completely empty for the entire time we would use it. Even with ROAR insurance, most of these guys want at least a grand for the rental of the day assuming they will even talk to you because it's not worth the liability to most of the people I talked to. .
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:15 AM   #120
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Do you think the manufacturers do enough to promote racing???
With the cost of real estate it is getting harder for Hobbyshops and tracks to survive...What can Big Hobby do besides manufacture the vehicles and parts???
I'm pretty sure all of the major manufacturers have tracks (tamiya, yokomo?, losi, xray) which helps but I don't think they really promote much outside of xtreme, rcca and rc car. Even the hobby expos don't really get much exposure. One local track used to rent out space at a local import auto show, but that eventually stopped.

This brings up the chicken and the egg syndrome right.. Look at houston as it is right now, 15 racers average show up for an event at $20 each, this is only $300 twice per month. The track we run at is about 35 miles outside of downtown and 60+ miles for a few of the racers, land is relatively modest but the guy owns it and has a house onsite as well as a plumbing business. Rumor has it they have something like $300 grand tied up in asphalt onroad track and a covered offroad track with some pit areas. They charge $30 for each pit area at big races, and lets look at nationals where there may be 200 people that buy tables so that is $6000 once.

This guy has already done all he can with his current location and will probably not break even for years but most likely has a nice write off for his other businesses. Without more racers, it's tough to ask for anything else.. but a decent number of local racers complain about the high costs either to the owners or behind their backs which slowly drives them away. The offroad track can bring 40-60 entries, but that is still only $1200 per week before you think about electricity and other random things but they have the cost of a metal warehouse type of building to recover here.

There is another track that has survived for probably 15 years here, does almost no racing but seems to always have a guy with a Tmaxx driving on the offroad track for $5 per day. This guys lot is considerably more expensive, in a popular part of town and racers can see the track from the street and sells more RTR's than you can count. Around christmas he will easily sell 100 revo's among others this year.
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