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Old 10-10-2007, 07:32 AM   #76
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Yeah....so? It's not about winning, it's about having fun at an affordable price. If someone actually feels good about themselves to have to cheat to win, well then so be it. I don't think it will be too difficult to monitor this sort of spec racing. Plus the cheater still has to drive his cheating car around the track with everyone else. So he has to have some skill to win. The fastest car doesn't always win. Like I said, it's about having fun regardless. Lets just keep it at that.
Just sharing what I've seen in the last 15 years of RC.. Losing every week to a car that pulls 20 feet on you on the straight and then catching him halfway in the corners feels rough to anybody because it does take the fun out of it even if you aren't trying to win because we all know cheaters suck.

The three rcpro classes should help but the only problem I can see is in Houston we only have a total of 10 racers or so with very few new drivers that quickly get deterred by the costs. The last RCPRO series race held here attracted I believe 10-12 10th scale and 10-15 8th scale (mostly dual entries so still only 20 people total for Houston, Austin, San Antonio and possibly Dallas) so if you split any more you end up with 3 people per class sort of like the one electric car that shows up. I've also run at a mini-z / 18th scale track where we had 40 entries but everyone there had 5 cars and we really only had 8 people which drags the day out. I personally won't be buying one of the GT's because another $20 to race it each day is too much to bother with.

I've seen Trinity's old pancar spec class with 20-30 drivers at a time at one track, but people got bored and it shutdown and nobody really knows why.

Texas has had some spec 8th scale racing recently that did fairly well, I believe they had 10-15 cars showing up with specific $150 engines but it died out for some unknown reason as well.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:13 AM   #77
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Just sharing what I've seen in the last 15 years of RC.. Losing every week to a car that pulls 20 feet on you on the straight and then catching him halfway in the corners feels rough to anybody because it does take the fun out of it even if you aren't trying to win because we all know cheaters suck.

The three rcpro classes should help but the only problem I can see is in Houston we only have a total of 10 racers or so with very few new drivers that quickly get deterred by the costs. The last RCPRO series race held here attracted I believe 10-12 10th scale and 10-15 8th scale (mostly dual entries so still only 20 people total for Houston, Austin, San Antonio and possibly Dallas) so if you split any more you end up with 3 people per class sort of like the one electric car that shows up. I've also run at a mini-z / 18th scale track where we had 40 entries but everyone there had 5 cars and we really only had 8 people which drags the day out. I personally won't be buying one of the GT's because another $20 to race it each day is too much to bother with.

I've seen Trinity's old pancar spec class with 20-30 drivers at a time at one track, but people got bored and it shutdown and nobody really knows why.

Texas has had some spec 8th scale racing recently that did fairly well, I believe they had 10-15 cars showing up with specific $150 engines but it died out for some unknown reason as well.
Dude, I hear what your saying. We are in the same boat for the most part in Colorado at MARCAR where I race 1:8th. There is the Hobby Town races which tends to bring a huge veriety of people and classes. Very good for beginers or 10th scale anything. They will have 50-80 different racers on the weekends. Entry fees are only $8 bucks per class or so. But my passion is in 1:8th scale so I don't race there. Maybe I should? The thing that Hobby Town allows a total beginners class. I mean these kids take 5 minutes to go around the track a few times. But it's cool in it's own sort of way.

That's hard to believe that you only have that many drivers in Texas. I mean with the weather being nice longer compared to Colorado. We're definately in a unique sport/hobby. And unfortunately it does take money. But so does a lot of other sports. Like skiing, any other form of racing etc. It's just what people can end up affording and liking at the same time I suppose. We all have to take some responsibility to try and make our hobby grow by inviting friends or whomever when we do race. We all need to take out our personal time to be informative and helpful to any and all prospects. Not much more to say I guess. later.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:24 AM   #78
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I've just started last year and gotten into the hobby with the goal of racing onroad, but quickly got out. I could put up with a lot of things: the rude hobby shop people, racing against with $1000 cars, no beginner class or whatever, etc But there is one thing that really kills RC racing.

Price, Especially maintenance This kills RC racing and gives it the "money pit" saying
Racing is too expensive unless you’re already "set" in life.


One last thing, I laughed when I read ROAR’s guidelines when they said there goals were to make RC racing “affordable”
I haven't had a good read like this in a while...
I'm sorry, but i gotta agree with this guy. The cost of the hobby is the driving force behind the gradual downfall of RC. Its just so expensive to keep up with the fast guys.. (not saying that lack of skill can be compensated by better materials.. we all know that) But when you got a group of guys who are extremely devoted to racing and are at similar skill levels and similar cars, its just who's got the better charger, who's got the better batteries, who's got the latest italian nitro engine, who's got the newest and the fastest gear that determine who is the fastest. This means on top of spending hours practicing and setting up your cars, you gotta get the good stuff in order to keep up with the group. Engines, tires, batteries, bodies wear out. Things get broken and dinged up.. just reality of racing.. cost of racing. I don't mind any of this. Competition is expensive. More serious about racing, more expensive its gonna get. Face the reality. Some people who are addicted to racing like me would rather skip meals or hang onto odd stuff a little longer so i can afford to buy racing gear.

What I do mind is the chain hobby shops tacking on their gigantic convenience fees on what they sell. See, here's the thing. Hobby shops want to make a quick buck. I've seen few hobby shops that are run by hobbyists like ourselves and many that are run by business men. Has anybody noticed more and more tracks are closing?? Less and less place for us to run our highly a$$ kicking race cars? More hobby shop shelves are being filled with Tmaxx, revo, stampedes??? (basher cars) I think there are 2 possible causes for this.

1. Racers notice the ridiculous prices at the hobby shops and start buying their gear online. Hobby shops try to compensate by hiking their prices higher. More and more racers stay away from buying crap at high prices at the hobby shops and start buying regularly from online vendors, only showing up to the hobby shops to race at their track. Hobby shop's income declines, and they can't pull a profit. They close the track and their investment in rc racing and focus on different things like volcano kits and ho trains.

2. Racers notice the riciculous prices at the hobby shops and start buying their gear online. Racers are exposed to the high tech rc and start running state of the art gear, kicking everybody who buy their cars and gear at the local shop into the novice and beginners class. Local hobby shop can't stock cool state of the art stuff cause they first gotta sell their traxxas nitro 4tec from 2 years ago and the tamiya 'new' beetle and kyosho sandmaster that's been sitting on their shelves for 10 years. Racers start asking hobbyshop owners to order serpent, mugen, team magic, xray parts but the hobbyshop owner doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. After research, the shop owner tries to order them, but because it took such an effort, he doubles the price. Oh yeah, and it will be here in a week. Racers laugh, going back to online vendors for their supplies, getting them in 2 to 3 days at half the price. Shop closes track and focus their attention in roping in suckers and kids into buying bashers (evader, tmaxx, revo, all hpi cars except maybe pro4 and r40).. who play in their back yard, and when something breaks, comes to them for parts or pay them to fix it.

Sorry I ended up kind of rambling.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:25 AM   #79
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everyone has their own ideas of the topic at hand, and where it has led to.
now for a moment, put aside makes or class of cars, affordability, and what one should run. isnt this part of the first topic. how one can say what and where someone else has to spend their money ? now for a bit of a flip side , one more thing to maybe start thinking about.
this year was going to be my first full season of Pro tourers. after half a season when i started pull start, then the next season i decided to change class to pro tourers, i was hoping for a good solid season. was paning out that way, then we have our track closed down by the local council and left high and dry. now as a club we have to pull together and sort this one out as a club, not as individuals. we love this sport of onroad nitros, i couldnt get my head around goin electric, but a personal choice.
So i have to ask, if we want to go Mainstream, there is a premier class of course. so as a spectator, i would love to be seeing the best of the best racing all together (a worlds event) a Motor Magazine here in OZ that covers aspects of F1 and the best luxury cars in the world, actually had a 3 page article of the recent Worlds in Brisbane, the person who wrote the article was astonished at the technical aspect and the fast action packed pace of the event. that is what attracts spectators, and as a driver, i would love to watch events all over the world.
now another thing id like to ask, as a relative newbee, how did the Cyruls, Swaugers Fantini's, etc. of today, end up sticking around at the top for so long. how did they get there, why they stuck around in the sport, and the influenced they had. as time changes, there are many influences today that probably werent as much of a problem back then.
the world is getting smaller, the lack of land around, means housing is reaching areas where tracks once were, or aproaching them. it took one resident to have us closed down. we have a younger generation, that is going out all night, alcohol, drugs, and can boast how they beat the living hell out of a guy, or they cant remember what they did last night. so there is a generation that is getting so hard to reach to get new blood into the sport. i dont think its more of a Cost factorto get started, there are many low cost rtr cars that are capable of going around a circuit, and getting people wanting to go faster, or get better cars, or motors. this i think isnt a manufacturers problem, its a problem of todays society. so maybe how do we tap into todays kids and get them involved into RC ? that i think is the biggest problem.
sorry for the long post
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:33 AM   #80
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Battery racing is a bit cheaper in end, but the short run times unless you buy several batteries and a quick charger, just plan sucks. With raising gas prices, you second guess driving an hour to the race track for only 30minutes of runtime. Oh, and you still have to pay for tires.
I dont know where you have been for the last year and change. Lipo/Brushless combinations give way better run times than ever. I get 30 minutes easy with my set-up and give nitros a run for their money pound for pound. The average nitro get anywhere from 6-8 minutes per tank, do the math. Lipo/BL is breathing a breath of fresh air into the sport.

Whats killing this sport as a whole is pros/sponsored guys running in classes that they are well beyond as far as skills. Lining it up with someone who does it for money and gets gear like some people catch a cold, definately doesnt fair well for newbs. This kils interest for someone who gets into the sport and gets destroyed his first time out the gate.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:41 AM   #81
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Whats killing this sport as a whole is pros/sponsored guys running in classes that they are well beyond as far as skills. Lining it up with someone who does it for money and gets gear like some people catch a cold, definately doesnt fair well for newbs. This kils interest for someone who gets into the sport and gets destroyed his first time out the gate.
hmmm, this seems to be a backward step of thinking here. i agree a newbee shouldnt be running with a pro/sponsored driver. but can i ask how you draw the line here ? what do you call a newbee ?
now for someone to improve, they need to be racing with drivers that are better than themselves. any sport requires this progression. so if you took out the sponsored driver, how does the next fast guy get better ? how can he or she compare their skills while racing ? then if he is removed , you have the middle tier of driver not having someone to compare their skills with also. i would imagine any race run with such a big level of skill difference, would split the heats sensibly, then if the newbee or mid tier driver got to the final, he would know what it takes to win it, or at least be on the lead lap. if you take the competition away , this restricts overall improvement of other drivers. something to look at
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:48 AM   #82
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hmmm, this seems to be a backward step of thinking here. i agree a newbee shouldnt be running with a pro/sponsored driver. but can i ask how you draw the line here ? what do you call a newbee ?
now for someone to improve, they need to be racing with drivers that are better than themselves. any sport requires this progression. so if you took out the sponsored driver, how does the next fast guy get better ? how can he or she compare their skills while racing ? then if he is removed , you have the middle tier of driver not having someone to compare their skills with also. i would imagine any race run with such a big level of skill difference, would split the heats sensibly, then if the newbee or mid tier driver got to the final, he would know what it takes to win it, or at least be on the lead lap. if you take the competition away , this restricts overall improvement of other drivers. something to look at
Ok, putting it plainly. You will get guys that are putting it down with factory dudes and holding their own. But in some instances, you get factory dudes that are running in classes that are (or should be) relegated for newbs; guys that are still learning. Yes, pit them against guys who have been doing it for awhile to aid in the building of skills. But envision this if you will, a factory sponsored driver who races for a living in a race with a dude who has been racing less than 2 yars. Thats like the New England Patriots playing against a varsity high school team.....
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:55 AM   #83
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Ok, putting it plainly. You will get guys that are putting it down with factory dudes and holding their own. But in some instances, you get factory dudes that are running in classes that are (or should be) relegated for newbs; guys that are still learning. Yes, pit them against guys who have been doing it for awhile to aid in the building of skills. But envision this if you will, a factory sponsored driver who races for a living in a race with a dude who has been racing less than 2 yars. Thats like the New England Patriots playing against a varsity high school team.....
well that sounds a bit like me. im still green (newbee sort of) and am going to my first national event. this is against the best drivers in Australia. now i am actually going to learn somethings, and find what its like to run with these guys. its more of an individuals perspective , but its the best way to learn.
you can learn alot in a short time. plus if these sponsored guys are running sort of the same cars, whats stopping the newbee talking to them and asking for info ? if the sponsored guy is running in a starting class with total newbs, then ok i agree, not good. but if its against guys who are comfortable where they are at, and are considering going to the next step , then its good for the sport. depends on the individual at hand.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:04 AM   #84
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Whats killing this sport as a whole is pros/sponsored guys running in classes that they are well beyond as far as skills. Lining it up with someone who does it for money and gets gear like some people catch a cold, definately doesnt fair well for newbs. This kils interest for someone who gets into the sport and gets destroyed his first time out the gate.
We once had a mugen factory guy come around our area and beat everyone to a pulp. This was maybe 2 years ago??? and I think it may have been Robbie Collins with a MTX3 prospec shortly after it came out. maybe. We thought we were so good.. and fast.. HE HANDED US OUR A$$es ON A PLATE. He lapped all of us 'resident pro's,' even those of us who drive 2 and a half hours to a 'real' track and race.... lapped us multiples of times.. I have never seen driving like that. Not a single mistake made during the 15 minute race. He was clearly more seasoned than the rest of us weekend warriors. He was really nice, talked to us a little bit, and when he was done, packed up and moved on to the next track I hear.

But you know what? Rather than whinning about how he was getting the latest gear for free and he's getting paid to race, I was actually inspired. His skill was so jaw dropping, it made most of us want to practice more, work on our cars more... just get better. We may never be as fast as these pro drivers, but they show us what could be achieved. It may not be fair for them to race along side everyone else whos' jobs are not racing RC but bring food to the table, but I think they are positive. I think they draw in potential racers and they do an excellent job at advertising the stuff they use... I ended up with 2 MTX3 Prospec!!!!
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:07 AM   #85
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Dudes,

3 “Rally GT” classes that are raced at out killer tracks, malls, parking lots, or wherever will get RC racing seen in America.

Big, loud, fast, durable affordable & fun cars that anyone can race. If we want to go mainstream with RC, this is the program.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:08 AM   #86
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you fix the problem of the new guys getting beat every week by pro, and still have the progression of the driving skills, by moving the drives up as they progress, like you win 3 races or more in rtr you go to sportsman, you win their and you move up to the fast guys.because the fast guys dont like having speed bumps out their and the new guys get frustrated because they get their a**es kicked every race.....I am kinda in the middle so at our track we hear, well if you want to run with the big dogs!!!!that is crap....I thrive on competition, but a lot of people get out their and they feel like they are in the way and cant race to their potital they are always having to look behind them and alway being told the leader is behind you move over.that does nothing for the driving skill either.ive seen it happen here.

Just a thought!!!

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Old 10-10-2007, 09:11 AM   #87
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That's hard to believe that you only have that many drivers in Texas. I mean with the weather being nice longer compared to Colorado.
It's shocking, but the rising costs have really driven most of the racers out. I've lived in texas for about 5 years and saw the decline of 10th electric because the only track was forced to close down because their building kept jacking their rent up. Then 8th scale offroad became popular but again, it cost $20 per entry but they were getting 80 and up to 130 people for a club organized monthly race. This started to drop down over a couple of years to where we have 10-20 guys show up most of the time. At one time we had 4 offroad tracks at once, they were all competing for business and all of them ended up losing it. Now we have three tracks, with one on a busy intersection with tons of new guys with revos and such but for some reason we never race there.

Meanwhile, onroad had no tracks for a short time after a major 8th scale track closed and then the current track opened up about a year later and suddenly it was $30 to club race on top of any costs associated with the cars plus an hour drive for some and this started to drop one by one.

Similar things happened in Austin and Dallas, RC is just in a decline in general around here and I can't fully explain it any better than any of you can other than cost.

I lived in Colorado for a while about 10 years ago and raced at MHOR and another track that I can't remember the name of but it seemed like 60-80 people would show up for electric offroad fairly consistently.

California is in a decline as well, Castle Hobbies used to get over 130 people every month in electric and somewhere near that number for nitro on a different weekend and I've heard they're down to 30-40 these days as well.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:14 AM   #88
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hm... mainstream rc....

like televised rc racing?? making people watch rc cars go around tracks... actually things that look like colorful soap bars moving at blur of speed... going around tracks over and over.... that's gonna take some time to draw in people to watch it...

Rc racing is not like nascar, indycar, or rallycar racing. Yes, the thrill is there, but only for the people who are driving at that time i think.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:17 AM   #89
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Exactly, Rally cars, race anywhere, RTR $400 = RC racing survival.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:20 AM   #90
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I dont know where you have been for the last year and change. Lipo/Brushless combinations give way better run times than ever. I get 30 minutes easy with my set-up and give nitros a run for their money pound for pound. The average nitro get anywhere from 6-8 minutes per tank, do the math. Lipo/BL is breathing a breath of fresh air into the sport.

Whats killing this sport as a whole is pros/sponsored guys running in classes that they are well beyond as far as skills. Lining it up with someone who does it for money and gets gear like some people catch a cold, definately doesnt fair well for newbs. This kils interest for someone who gets into the sport and gets destroyed his first time out the gate.

I wouldn't care if electric cars lasted 3 hours of run time. I like the nitro. It's the closest thing to "real" racing for me. I've never seen an electric powered F1. Also, these ultra fast guys are what keeps me going and gives me something to shoot for. I love the fact that you can always improve. And it's usually not the faster engine and better gear that makes these "Super Fast" guys fast. It's skill, plain and simple. I'm not saying that the gear doesn't help them go faster, but I know it wouldn't make me any faster. Can you drive a 30 or 45 minute main hitting the exact same line and never touch a board plus pass others flawlessly? HMMMM? That takes skill and can only be achieved by practice. It takes literally years of practice to see yourself gain up the podeum to achieve these better skills. If it was easy, then I wouldn't be interested in it. Not enough challenge for me if it was easy. Well it's not easy and sometimes down right frustrating. But that's what keeps me racing. It's that challenge to improve. It's sort of like golf if you've ever played. Everytime you play 9 holes, you always remember your last score and know deep down that you can beat it. But you don't. So you go to the range and hit 300 balls then play that weekend and finally beat your last or best score by 2 strokes. The addiction of improvment is what keeps you comming back.
At least for me, plus it's fun as hell!! RC racing...not golf. Golf is ok too.

Anyway, I think that Patto has a point. I remember getting my first RC car 25 years ago. The Tamiya Frog. Then a year later the Team Associated RC10. I was like 12 or 13 years old. How did I pay for these, by working, mowing lawns, saving aluminum cans..whatever it took to make money. Plus I save my money. I didn't go spend my first $20 bucks just because I had it. I saved until I had $300 bucks or whatever it took to buy what I wanted. Then all I did was play with it in the street. I never knew that they raced these things. Hell, I can't get ANY of my 3 teenage boys to get off their LAZY ass to take out the trash. Even if I gave them money. And if I do give them money, it's spent that afternoon. They can't can't hold on to $20 bucks for more then a few hours let alone weeks to save and achieve a goal. I know not all kids are the same as mine, lets hope not. But the majority of todays youth is VERY lazy and seem to have NO drive. I actually have one of my boys, the oldest living on the streets because he doesn't want ANY rules in his life. Well my house has rules, and the only rule for him was finish High School. He didn't think that was fair so now he lives on the streets. Very Sad!

Anyway, there are so many different reasons for what appears to be the slow demise of RC, it's really hard to weed out the real cause. I definately don't have the answer. But if we all can pull together on an National and International level, we have the power to turn it around. Power in numbers is always a fact. But we all have to do our part. Not one out of five. 20% just won't cut it. Maybe I'm reading too much into all this. Anyway, sorry for the long post guys. Pray to the RC Gods for guidence.
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