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Old 10-03-2004, 09:16 PM   #2476
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funny thing you mentioned that Leo V and I were just discussing that exact thing. He told me he felt the servo saver spring was to soft (AKA early NTC3) and the car would not return the steering fast enough causing a hooking problem. so I recommended he get a NTC3 spring and put on it. Associated went to a Nitro GT slipper spring in their kits.

no teeth aka on power oversteer. what killed the teeth?
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Old 10-03-2004, 11:11 PM   #2477
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Quote:
Originally posted by dino.tw
There is mine. just finish assembling...
Black Magic G4 EVO + Dragon Power
i am impressed, that you still have time to work on a new car. the car is not bad either.

data
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Old 10-03-2004, 11:12 PM   #2478
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Quote:
Originally posted by rc_alan
Just came back from The ROAR Western Reg's
how did you do at the regional? i was planning to go today but got side tracked.
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Old 10-04-2004, 12:53 AM   #2479
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I didn't do to bad.. lol... My lap times drop down to 17 sec lap times with the G4... Never had that with the Mugen... The racing at the Reg. was Super.... Everyone brought there A game .!!! Pepe ran a 15.7 on one lap trying to play catch up... That was the fastest time every at Crystal Park for 1-10th scale... There was some 1/8th scales in there b- main that didn't run that fast... but Pepe had problems at the beginning of the race and Robbie Collins won the A main... Oh, Barry Baker was Robbie's pit man... Really.. I had a major issue in pratice before the my first heat and had to rebuild my entire front end of my car.. The new steering system for the G4 held up great, but my new steering blocks shattered like glass when I get T-boned by a 1/8th scale... I had to go back with the stock steering blocks and had to eye-ball my settings... The crash was my fault.. Not paying attention when I should have on the track... Got my car back together and after each heat my times got better evening though I needed more steering... Those New steering blocks are really a must have with the new steering system.... Never lost a tooth on my front belt and my rear end was planted all weekend... the track was in GREAT condition and I ran 40-40 shore all weekend... I was looking for you Data... :-) I ran the new 26 tooth sec gear on my car (k1236) and 21T on the front (k1231)... My top end was Unbelievable!!!! No Serpent or Mugen pulled on me on the back straight.... As a matter fact, my cars over all speed was better now and if I had more steering... Who knows how things could have turned out... For all G4 owners, I can't say enough good things about the new steering system!!! But the new steeing blocks need to be a little more duable as nothing else broke during my accident except the blocks.... both of them and I was only hit on one side... Will I buy them again??? Heck Yes.. The upgrade gives you so much steering and the cars turns in as tight as a Mugen and Serpent 710 if not better... Those who say that there rear ends come loose now with the new steering system should dail down there dual rate and steeing EPA... Sounds like you're over-steering and or your track didn't have good traction... I wish I could get some support from RD Logics in the future for the G4... Sorry guys for the late reply to the thread... Was getting ready for work...

RC_Alan
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Old 10-04-2004, 05:47 AM   #2480
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Quote:
Originally posted by Data
i am impressed, that you still have time to work on a new car. the car is not bad either.

data


w/some hop-ups for add weight now

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Old 10-04-2004, 05:52 AM   #2481
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New K-factory 3mm chassis
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Old 10-04-2004, 06:00 AM   #2482
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You need to slow down and comprehend what you're reading, Alan. I'm not oversteering the car, dual rate is fine, and traction is fine. The front belt has lost it's teeth due to rubbing on the new steering mechanism. This in turn causes the front to lose drive gradually until it's all gone. That's the only reason the rear comes around. Once I found it and replaced the belt I was instantly hooked up again.

Let me make this clear to all the steering cheerleaders:

1. The new steering requires you to dremel away part of the bulkheads to eliminate the interference at the end of the steering stroke.

2. The belts (as first mentioned by another poster a few weeks ago) can in fact rub the steering mechanism, causing them to strip.

3. When working, yes, it works great, but for the amount of time put into it this solution is an engineering disaster.

When running correctly, though, this car is IMO the best car on the track. With only a few upgrades the car is essentially bulletproof and any broken parts will probably come from huge crashes. Glad to see RD Logics getting involved witht he G4. Hopefully it will be a long term support agreement and the G4 & it's parts are around for a long time. Now, get on the phone with TM and get that steering system corrected.......again.
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Old 10-04-2004, 08:47 AM   #2483
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kmac: i agree with you! i think TM should make a new version of the front bulkheads that would perfectly fit the new steering. our TM orders maybe arriving soon (new steering, new steering blocks, new clutch). however, i didn't know that you have to use a dremel to take away some parts of the bulkhead. do you have any pictures? the G4 is a very nice car, it is soo stable and will go anywhere you point the car without understeering if properly set-up. TM should find a solution to this problem. it maybe inconvenient to other racers having to use a dremel just to install the new steering.

carlo d.
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Old 10-04-2004, 08:56 AM   #2484
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Quote:
Originally posted by KMac
You need to slow down and comprehend what you're reading, Alan. I'm not oversteering the car, dual rate is fine, and traction is fine. The front belt has lost it's teeth due to rubbing on the new steering mechanism. This in turn causes the front to lose drive gradually until it's all gone. That's the only reason the rear comes around. Once I found it and replaced the belt I was instantly hooked up again.

Let me make this clear to all the steering cheerleaders:

1. The new steering requires you to dremel away part of the bulkheads to eliminate the interference at the end of the steering stroke.

2. The belts (as first mentioned by another poster a few weeks ago) can in fact rub the steering mechanism, causing them to strip.

3. When working, yes, it works great, but for the amount of time put into it this solution is an engineering disaster.

When running correctly, though, this car is IMO the best car on the track. With only a few upgrades the car is essentially bulletproof and any broken parts will probably come from huge crashes. Glad to see RD Logics getting involved witht he G4. Hopefully it will be a long term support agreement and the G4 & it's parts are around for a long time. Now, get on the phone with TM and get that steering system corrected.......again.
Kmac. I've known you for a while on this thread... I could have replied in like form... but that's not style. I have read your posts and the other guy loosing teeth on there front belts due to the belt rubbing against the new steering rack ect... I'm not saying that wasn't your problem, I've gotten countless PM's from different G4 owners asking me about the new steering system and if I had those same problems. And my answer is no. I would say that maybe using a more durable front belt may help. The K-factory low friction belts loose there teeth very easy and the TM stock belt are just ok... Kyosho belts are the way to go when running the G4... As far as belt go, Many Mugen MTX3 owners use the belts from the MRX3 for that very reason... There 1/8 scale belts are more durable and I even had them snap me and loose teeth as well. Mugen MTX3 owners are always checking there belts because there stock belts are the worst I've seen... I take loosing teeth and broken belts as a fact of life with belt driven cars. When I switched to the Kysosho belts, I had 100% improvement in belt falure. True, you will have to dremal the front bulk head a little to help clear the steering rack and add a tad bit more steering. I don't know one Nitro car that doesn't need alittle extra work on it to bullet prove things and to gain alittle more advantage. Oh, and I used the k-factory low friction belts over the weekend at the ROAR western Reg. and didn't loose a belt or loose one tooth on the front belt. Kmac, again, I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong or nothing can be improved with the new steering system, but to me the gains out weigh the faults as compared to what we had to work with the old setup. I understand your frustration, that's why I didn't reply in like kind. As for the dual-rate and steering EPA, that answer really wasn't for you... There's alot of new drivers that don't know how to set there radios and over steer or under steer due to change in track conditions. I never try to flame anyone nor question there intelligence. Good luck and I hope we all can work together to help make the G4 a better car.

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Old 10-04-2004, 10:33 AM   #2485
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Where can I find the results of the ROAR Western Regional?

Last edited by J_Longbrake; 10-04-2004 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 10-04-2004, 11:49 AM   #2486
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Alan, that's not directed at yourself, per se, but just to the people in general who are thinking that the new steering is the fix all because it's NOT! As much as myself, you, and others wore out TM over the original steering problem I can't believe the new steering is gaining such acceptability when it still has problems. I don't perceive dremeling the bulkheads as an effort to get additional steering; it has to be done to achieve the ORIGINAL amount of steering, so in my opinion it's a flaw. In addition, now with the new steering it's a little more work to get the front diff out (like when you're replacing a stripped belt because it has been rubbing on the new steering mechanism).

After reading the post from the first guy who said he had belt rubbing problems I looked at mine and observed that the belt didn't hit the steering, although it was close. But, the belt obviously flexes enough from it's static position that it will hit the steering when it is running.

But, like I've said, when all is working correctly the car is IMO the best performing car out there in equal hands. Unfortunately, this one issue keeps it from "working correctly" for long enough periods to be able to progress with the car. Hopefully, RD Logics will now get TM on the path to fixing it correctly.

IMO, TM screwed up when they maintained the use of the steering rail in the new steering mechanism.

TM, listen carefully:

Lose the steering rail. Change the steering mechanism so it mounts to the chassis plate instead. Adjust it a little bit higher so you don't have to dremel the bulkheads. Get the pieces further away from the belt. Now the steering will work correctly, as installed, and the bulkheads will be much easier to remove and re-assemble.
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Old 10-04-2004, 02:09 PM   #2487
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dont see why you have to dremel any thing off the bulkheads, before fitting the new steering i put the car on the setup gauges and marked full lock both sides on inner and outer wheel, then did the same with new steering system. result- the new system did give slightly less steering lock, then i drilled the orginal steering blocks 5mm forward, result outer wheel give the same amount of lock and the inner wheel gave more lock,

i agree with the fact the belt could catch the steering on full left lock, but can be sorted quite easy.

another thing you guys could try is shortening the wheel base slighly, i cut about 3mm off the front edge of the rear wishbones, then fit 3mm spacer at back of wishbone (can use castor clips), car seems to take hairpins much better.
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Old 10-04-2004, 03:32 PM   #2488
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Quote:
Originally posted by KMac
You need to slow down and comprehend what you're reading, Alan. I'm not oversteering the car, dual rate is fine, and traction is fine. The front belt has lost it's teeth due to rubbing on the new steering mechanism. This in turn causes the front to lose drive gradually until it's all gone. That's the only reason the rear comes around. Once I found it and replaced the belt I was instantly hooked up again.

Let me make this clear to all the steering cheerleaders:

1. The new steering requires you to dremel away part of the bulkheads to eliminate the interference at the end of the steering stroke.

2. The belts (as first mentioned by another poster a few weeks ago) can in fact rub the steering mechanism, causing them to strip.

3. When working, yes, it works great, but for the amount of time put into it this solution is an engineering disaster.

When running correctly, though, this car is IMO the best car on the track. With only a few upgrades the car is essentially bulletproof and any broken parts will probably come from huge crashes. Glad to see RD Logics getting involved witht he G4. Hopefully it will be a long term support agreement and the G4 & it's parts are around for a long time. Now, get on the phone with TM and get that steering system corrected.......again.
Be cool down please. It no need to get mad. I never see a perfect kit so far. Every time I assemble a new kit,I always can find some places need to be modified no matter which brands. Sometimes it is funs to me. Perfect is boring...

This time I spent about one week to assemble the G4 EVO very carefully. And found some place need to be modified. I have told my friend Nick about those places. And Yes,they would like to upgrade those parts soon. But no one ask me here so I didn't tell what I found.

see the attachment,I ground the top of the new steering system.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg new steering system mod.jpg (136.7 KB, 141 views)
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Old 10-04-2004, 03:47 PM   #2489
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Above Receiver fixing mode is wrong!!!

I got radio fault when WOT. Don't imitate me. The Receiver can't be fixed on chassis directly. The shake is too big although I use foam tape...

Need to fix it on radio tray later...
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Old 10-04-2004, 04:26 PM   #2490
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At last...Proof that it is not just my car that fouls the belt.
When i origionally asked you all about this problem , a few replies led me to belive that i was alone on this one , so then stripped my car to `Build it properly !`. And yet now more and more are realising the problems are with design tolorances and not set up errors. My car barely got round the track yesterday as i dont have the new steering blocks yet - and yes i can set up EPA`s and turnbuckle lengths to compensate somewhat but i have a greatly reduced turning circle . I find it very hard to fathom exactly how with the use of CAD, can such obvious faults get overlooked by a manafacturer of any product. I feel TM may have been rushed into releasing this to please us but now wish they had`nt bothered as we can`t be 100% happy as we all need something debate in the Forums !!!. But lets all hope that all of these mistakes aid the perfection of TM`s next car. Just think - a perfect TM G?
Any how - Good to see how others have different takes on how to overcome the problem.
Interesting one about shortening the wheelbase - any pics ?
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